Old 04-29-2013, 06:16 PM   #1
orangehuggy
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Default Nordwind A321

Was almost shot down on its Sharm el-Sheikh to Kazan flight. Only the pilots evasive maneuvers saved the day reports say. 159 pax.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:33 PM   #2
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Was almost shot down on its Sharm el-Sheikh to Kazan flight. Only the pilots evasive maneuvers saved the day reports say. 159 pax.
http://theaviationist.com/2013/04/29...1#.UX7YxGSSD6U

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Old 04-29-2013, 10:33 PM   #3
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i do not understand why an aircraft would choose to fly over Syria (or any other unstable country).


Edit: I meant airline.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:26 PM   #4
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i do not understand why an aircraft would choose to fly over Syria (or any other unstable country).
The aircraft would not choose to do so, it would be the human programming the auto pilot. (Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:11 AM   #5
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i've got $100 that says the syrian govt blames the terrorists and russia continues to kiss the asses of the peaceful syrian govt and continues to supply them with weapons...just sayin.
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:52 AM   #6
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i've got $100 that says the syrian govt blames the terrorists and russia continues to kiss the asses of the peaceful syrian govt and continues to supply them with weapons...just sayin.
Welll... To balance the argument - as we (read the west) supply the rebels with arms and munitions. It's back to the 1960's without the Dr Strangelove overtones.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:57 AM   #7
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i dont think we r supplying arms just yet. cia? maybe. but not openly.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:10 AM   #8
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i dont think we r supplying arms just yet. cia? maybe. but not openly.
Errr, arms are being supplied by our "allies" in Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Aid and arms are fungible.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:53 AM   #9
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not the same thing politically.

on another note, anyone else find it strange that these pilots were able to dodge TWO missiles in an airbus? correct me if i'm wrong here, but i was under the impression that beating a missile, let alone two, requires some pretty ridiculous and abrupt maneuvers which the bus is designed to prevent.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:41 PM   #10
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UK government are openly supplying the rebels.

And yes, I totally agree - either the missile operators fired missiles that were at the limit of their engagement envelope when fired - and the missiles self destructed when they hit their limit (operator error to engage in the first place). OR the missiles were fired at something else.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:56 PM   #11
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Reading the Aviationist article, it is stated that the A321 was flying at FL340, approximately 10400 meters. There are only a few anti aircraft missile systems capable of reaching that altitude. Even considering the assumption that the missiles were launched from a mountain limits the available hardware. More or less all shoulder launched weapons can be ruled out.
So, either there was never a threat to the aeroplane, or there was a serious attempt, using the best stuff they could muster.
It is believed that Syria recently obtained a few SA17 batteries from Russia. Those have the capability to reach above that altitude. If the Syrians used them to attempt to shoot down a civil airliner it would leave them with the smoking gun, as it is not believed that any of the SA17s have ended up in the hands of the opposition or Hizbolla.
Syria is also believed to have owned the SA8, which has a maximum ceiling of 12 km. Some of those are allegedly in the hands of the opposition and likely the Hizbolla. This is the more likely of the weapons used. Here, the smoking gun can be in several pockets. There are limiting factors;
All high altitude missile systems rely on tracker and/ or illuminator radars. They are all vehicle borne, and the mobility to deploy seriously off-road is limited. There are also reliability factors. If taken over by a secondary operator, without the logistic technical support of a base regiment, they will quite rapidly become useless due to lack of spares and repair facilities.
This is quite an interesting mind-game. Anyone who has better insight into the power-balance, willing to add to the discussion?

I can not help asking the question; what made them fly that route?
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:50 PM   #12
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How did they even know a missile was tracking them?
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:24 AM   #13
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http://avherald.com/h?article=46191d48&opt=0
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:07 PM   #14
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The incident highlights the difference in Safety Cultures. Cautious Pilots from Western Countries would probably take a huge detour to avoid flying anywhere near a War Zone. (Some) Russian Pilots may assess the risk as being minimal and fly straight over the top of it.

We saw the same phenomena during the Icelandic Volcano eruption awhile ago. Thousands of European flights were cancelled. But the Russians just kept flying!

It is an interesting contrast in Philosophy and I am not judging who is wrong or right. Personally I feel very safe in the hands of Pilots from all corners of the world.
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