Is there a change in the policy and criteria of JP.net ?

Hi,

I apologize in advance for this long post, I think that it's very important issue, I wrote this post during about five hours...

You know already that my language is not English, and therefore maybe I have spelling mistakes, I expect to your patience, and asking to read the message carefully.

I am writing this message with a profound pain, disappointment, and yes, with a little anger.

Yes, I am aware of the fact that as in the past, now too, some answers are anticipated such as :"this is not the real life, why take into the heart"? , "After all its only a hobby and one needs to stay calm", "The photography is not an accurate science" , etc...

Yes, I know it, everybody is right.
I know that it is only a hobby and not " the real life", so I don’t expect to the above answers. However I do feel that the core of the matter is a principal issue, so I do ask you to answer me on the point and the issue that I hereby raise.
I do hope that the answer will come from as many as possible team members.
And please answer to me with honestly, as I write in all honesty.

Now I am writing about this rejection.

About a week ago, this photo was accepted, and right away after some minutes, and right away after some minutes, another photo was rejected for the first time because of "Too much or too little contrast".

Following this rejection I asked in this forum what should be done and I received some recommendations to correct the matter.
(5020, 5023, 5024, 5025).
Thereafter I reuploaded this photo.

Yesterday this photo was rejected again, this time the reason being "similar" and one of the team members added his comment:
"Sorry Erez, it's a bit too similar to this; http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7409366 "

I wish to emphasize that if it is really "similar" (in your terms) then I would have expected that you should have rejected many accepted photos, almost every day, on a regular basis !

I never had a rejection of a photo where the aircraft is on the ground, for the reason of "similar", when I have another photo on the database while the aircraft is in the air !!!
It is obvious since there are two positions of the aircraft, one on the ground and one in the air. So, how could these photos be as "similar"???

I admit that in the first moments I did not understand this rejection, I thought it was some sort of a mistake or a bad joke, therefore I sent immediately an appeal about this rejection.

In other cases when you reject my photos I try to write very detailed appeals, sometimes I even write too detailed appeals...
However in this case because I feel too upset and I have written a very short appeal as follows: "Excuse me, but is this serious or a joke ?"
Perhaps it's not a quote with exact words, but that's what I wrote more or less.


I thought that maybe a Senior Screener will show some understanding that it's a grave mistake, but to my regret after a short time the appeal was rejected with no explanation at all.

In light of the above and after much thought, also after consulting with some friends around the world I have decided to write this topic.

I take the liberty to believe, in fact I even almost sure, that maybe in another day, or maybe in another hour, or maybe with other screeners, the fate of the photo could be reversed. and we all see here that sometimes we have disagreements between team members on various issues !

Therefore, despite significant team member once wrote should not rely on luck, I think sometimes the luck also plays an important role here !
After all, this should be so obvious to us all !

It should be emphasized that these photos are not the usual ones of the routine Boeing or Airbus shots, they are special photos out of Air Show.

I dare to suggest that if some screeners tend to be harsh with photos that are "routine", in those cases I would expect them to think "Out of the box".

With all of modesty I have no doubt almost about the things I write here today.

Of course I have not any proof, but I think and also believe that one the screening team was in favor of accepting the photo.
I say all of that with modesty and full respect to all of the Jetphotos.net team.

I hope to receive many answers to this topic from many of the team members as possible.

All the best,
Erez.

[Mr Chips]

Firstly Eres, no need to apologise for your English, I always admire those who can speak multiple languages, and lets just say my Israeli language skills are pretty much non exsistant.

I was one of the screeners who voted to reject the image Eres, the angle is pretty much the same as your image in the database and between both images, only a few seconds could have passed. There's not even a 45 degree angle of difference between them. If you are going to try and upload several images of an aircraft during one sequence of events, i.e during a landing, ensure they are completely different and that they have at LEAST a minimum of 45 degree angle between them.

I notice you also have this image in the database of the same aircraft on the same day, probably during the same sequence of events?

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7414913

Expecting to get 3 images onto JP during the same sequence of events is a bit too much to be honest Erez, ensure they have completely different angles and show completely different things.

I apologise in advance if this sounds blunt but I feel it is also a little bit cheeky asking screeners to think outside the box during screening when you get so many images rejected for being similar because you yourself are failing to think outside the box by uploading so many images during the same landing sequence (or take off sequence), and often with less than the required 45 degree difference in angle.

You have 7000 images on the database which is a huge amount, and I would hazard a guess that you have had quite a lot of rejections aswell during your time on JP, this 'should' mean that you should be one of the most experienced uploaders on the website, but I just fail to see it when I see some of your uploads and arguments.

On a final note, I find it a bit of a shame that you wasted your only appeal opportunity (remember only one appeal chance per rejection), with the comment you included. If you are going to appeal, at least include a well contructed appeal comment.

Regards,

Dave

[brianw999]

I'm going to take this in little bits and start with the Hercules rejection.

The image on the ground was taken just 8 seconds after the airborne image. The only difference is that there is some air in between the wheels and the ground, otherwise there is no real difference. The pictures are indeed therefore similar.

.........................

The noisy / grainy helicopter.
I was the screener who rejected this. The whole side of the aircraft is very grainy, possibly where you have tried to brighten it up. To be honest, I should also have included blurry in the rejection as well. It was also very close to a backlit rejection due to most of the fuselage being in shadow.

.........................

The contrast rejection of the Hercules.
Putting aside the similar issue....On a purely personal basis I would have accepted the contrast level of the image. This does not mean that I am right and the screener who rejected for contrast is wrong though.
Screening decisions are often based on the screener having to decide which side of the accept/reject line an image is. The screener who screened it decided it was on the reject side. I would have decided it was on the accept side. That is the personal choice/opinion of individuals at work.

Dave and Brian,

To start this answer with a good atmosphere, It's always good to know that Brian is around, just in case, but with hope for good health, and will not need to the paramedic ...
By the way, my firstborn son is a doctor...

I'm always happy when there is discussion with honesty and integrity. So, many thanks for the both answers.

About this photo, it was accepted just a few hours ago, after the "main subject" of this topic was rejected.

In all of the other subjects in your answers, I want to learn more about the subjects, more deeply, and it will take me probably a few hours or more ...

Best regards,
Erez.

Hello again to all...

I want now to continue in brief answer after the last answer that I wrote yesterday.

I read for several hours the two answers from Brian and Dave.
Also I looked in hundreds photos (!) was accepted to the JP database recently.

Actually my eyes needs now to long rest after the big effort I made, and everything it's to try to understand the problem.
After all those hours I have one conclusion is clear to me carefully, almost without a doubt.

During this period you are very strict, than a month or two months ago, and very much more strict than a year ago.

Photos that are accepted a month or two before, you are reject now, and a lot.

It's so clear to me.

Also, and again, I have no doubt at all, even though responses of team members in the forum over time, there is no consistency and uniformity in the screening decisions. I have no doubt at all about this specific point.

At this point I needs now to long rest ...

All the best to all,
Yours,
Erez.

[Hinkelbein]

I hope your break will not be long.
You have 7000+ photos in the database, you are part of it.
And seeing those photos, and especially the ones of the Hercules as shown in your post, I can only say: please don't pause too long and come back.

I too sometimes disagree strongly with a rejection, and I get mad at times.
But most times, after taking some rest, I think: yeah, the screeners are right.
Not all the times, but most times.

Cheers,

Hinkelbein

Originally Posted by Hinkelbein

I hope your break will not be long.
You have 7000+ photos in the database, you are part of it.
And seeing those photos, and especially the ones of the Hercules as shown in your post, I can only say: please don't pause too long and come back.

I too sometimes disagree strongly with a rejection, and I get mad at times.
But most times, after taking some rest, I think: yeah, the screeners are right.
Not all the times, but most times.

Cheers,

Hinkelbein

Thank you for your response.

[StMawganE14]

Erez,

Like you, I have over 7,000 shots in the database and am possibly as Dave describes, one of the more 'experienced uploaders' so feel qualified to respond. As he also surmises, I have a had (and continue to have) my fair share of rejections.

Unlike you, I cannot remember the last time I made an appeal. My way of working is to look at the rejection with a clear eye and if I can, rework the file and reupload. If not, I brush myself down and move on. Sometimes I get frustrated, more often than not with myself - for my own stupidity, lack of care or not spotting the obvious. What I don't do is agonize, blame the screeners for having a conspiracy against me or for suddenly 'moving the goalposts' sitewide or send comments on appeal which are produced by the heat of the moment.

You really should calm down and listen - if not to the screeners then to your inner uploader who perhaps needs to take a step back and reflect occasionally.

Brian

[B7772ADL]

"Is there a change in the policy and criteria of JP.net ?"


My answer is.....

No, it's business as usual, nothing has changed.

[CO777/200]

Well said Brian!!
I got some rejections too in the past and was really pissed at the first time.
But I looked twice at it and finally agreed with the screeners desicion.

Instead of complaining about the screeners and waste the time to write it into the forum, Erez you should could calm down, think about it 1-2 days and start a new day and accept that the picture didn't make his way into the database.
Personally I think two pictures of the same reg. are absolutley enough!

[LX-A343]

Originally Posted by StMawganE14

Erez,

Like you, I have over 7,000 shots in the database and am possibly as Dave describes, one of the more 'experienced uploaders' so feel qualified to respond. As he also surmises, I have a had (and continue to have) my fair share of rejections.

Unlike you, I cannot remember the last time I made an appeal. My way of working is to look at the rejection with a clear eye and if I can, rework the file and reupload. If not, I brush myself down and move on. Sometimes I get frustrated, more often than not with myself - for my own stupidity, lack of care or not spotting the obvious. What I don't do is agonize, blame the screeners for having a conspiracy against me or for suddenly 'moving the goalposts' sitewide or send comments on appeal which are produced by the heat of the moment.

You really should calm down and listen - if not to the screeners then to your inner uploader who perhaps needs to take a step back and reflect occasionally.

Brian

Thank you very much for this post. It sums it up very good.

OT: I also like to thank you for your uploads, even if some are from my home "turf" . I think I can notice this mentioned approach of learning through rejections if I see your uploads now, comparing them with your earlier uploads. Always a pleasure to screen.

[StMawganE14]

Thanks for your words Gerardo!

I'm sorry to tell you however that I have today booked my flights for my annual trip for the WEF - I'll be back in Zurich for a week in January 2013! Back to your stomping ground again...

Brian

[LX-A343]

Again? I thought you knew by now, how the weather usually is like at ZRH in January

[StMawganE14]

I am such a glutton for punishment! Every year it becomes more and more of an endurance test...It has to be done though!

Originally Posted by B7772ADL

"Is there a change in the policy and criteria of JP.net ?"
My answer is.....
No, it's business as usual, nothing has changed.

I might be wrong, it is possible, but as I have mentioned above, follow up of my pictures show that some Screeners are more strict in their decisions, so that some pictures are not accepted, and others that were accepted not long ago, are now rejected.

Originally Posted by StMawganE14

Erez,
Like you, I have over 7,000 shots in the database and am possibly as Dave describes, one of the more 'experienced uploaders' so feel qualified to respond. As he also surmises, I have a had (and continue to have) my fair share of rejections.
Unlike you, I cannot remember the last time I made an appeal. My way of working is to look at the rejection with a clear eye and if I can, rework the file and reupload. If not, I brush myself down and move on. Sometimes I get frustrated, more often than not with myself - for my own stupidity, lack of care or not spotting the obvious. What I don't do is agonize, blame the screeners for having a conspiracy against me or for suddenly 'moving the goalposts' sitewide or send comments on appeal which are produced by the heat of the moment.
You really should calm down and listen - if not to the screeners then to your inner uploader who perhaps needs to take a step back and reflect occasionally.
Brian

I do not send usually an appeal on a regular basis. Only in cases when I believe that there is an error in your decision, usually I do accept the rejection and try to learn from my mistakes.
Just to make a point, from time to time a senior Screener accepts my appeal.
I wish to emphasize that I do not blame anyone in anything. As I mentioned above, I try to learn from my mistakes. The worst thing that I do is ask and inquire about the decision made by the Screener. I surely don’t call it "complain".

Originally Posted by CO777/200

Well said Brian!!
I got some rejections too in the past and was really pissed at the first time.
But I looked twice at it and finally agreed with the screeners desicion.
Instead of complaining about the screeners and waste the time to write it into the forum, Erez you should could calm down, think about it 1-2 days and start a new day and accept that the picture didn't make his way into the database.
Personally I think two pictures of the same reg. are absolutley enough!

I do not see my questions and remarks as complaints as I have explained before.
In my opinion it is not a waste of time, I see it as a tool for my learning, and whoever is studying must invest time don’t you think???
I also wish to emphasize that 2 photos of a regular plane in routine episodes are enough just the way you see it, however in special cases, if you take a picture of a combat plane of a combat helicopter during Air show I would gladly see more than 2 photos in various positions. It is definitely stimulating and brings interest.
Best regards to all,
Erez.

PS
By the way, I have also some plans about the WEF 2013 ... So, perhaps we'll meet in Zurich soon ...

[RingwaySam]

Originally Posted by ErezS

Of course I have not any proof, but I think and also believe that one the screening team was in favor of accepting the photo.
I say all of that with modesty and full respect to all of the Jetphotos.net team.

Screening history says otherwise.