Henan Airlines Embraer 190 crash, China

[akerosid]

It's just being reported that an Embraer 190 has crashed in China, with 96 on board; the accident happened last night (Tuesday, 23 August).

Henan Airlines was, until recently, known as Kunpeng Airlines and operates five Embraer 190ARs.

[CathayPacific]

Is this the first crash of E-190?

The flight was operating from Harbin to Yichun (about 1hr north of Harbin) at the Russian border. The crash happened at Yichun and the aircraft has an all-economy config with 106 seats. News report said there are 91 pax on board. The flight departed Harbin at 20:50 and the crash happened at 22:10 (all local time). Flight number is VD8387.

http://inews.mingpao.com/htm/INews/2...4/ca22342c.htm

No news about casualties yet.

Originally Posted by akerosid

It's just being reported that an Embraer 190 has crashed in China, with 96 on board; the accident happened last night (Tuesday, 23 August).

From the info I read, the crash happened on Aug 24 at 22:10 (about 2hrs ago), not Aug 23 (which would be 26hrs ago). Current time in China is Aug 25 00:10.

[Jan-Jasinski]

I just read about this.
Plane crashes in northeast China
91 people on board
Last Updated: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 | 12:32 PM ET Comments5Recommend20The Associated Press
Chinese state media say a Henan Airlines plane with 91 people on board has crashed in northeast China, and about 20 injured people have been taken to hospital so far.

Chinese state television said 47 people were rescued from the crash.

The plane crashed near the Lindu airport in Yichun city in Heilongjiang province at 10:10 p.m. local time, the official Xinhua news agency said.

The plane had taken off from Heilongjiang's capital of Harbin shortly before 9 p.m. local time. An earlier Xinhua report citing airline officials erroneously reported 96 people were on board


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/0...#ixzz0xXgwFaen

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4300bc3c&opt=0

[Jose Luis Silva]

Flight VD8387....

Aircraft registration: B-3130

[justLOT787]

Sad news and it first of E-jets. R.I.P

[Alessandro]

43 dead according to http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=76468
Flightrecorder has been found, http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...braer-190.html

[Jan-Jasinski]

Some Pictures curtosy of AviationHerald.
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4300bc3c&opt=0

[Theoddkiwi]

Originally Posted by Alessandro

43 dead according to http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=76468
Flightrecorder has been found, http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...braer-190.html

A small correction regarding the report of them finding the FDR but not the CVR. The Embrear has two combined DVDRs both record Flight Data and Cockpit Voice. So all they need to do is find one recorder and the have Both FDR and CVR on the one device.
Two are installed one in the the front and one in the back and they record identical information.

[brianw999]

The most astonishing thing is that people actually survived that one.

RIP those that passed away.

[UALdave]

Very sad indeed. Here's a quote from the NY Times article on the crash that worries me:

"The state-run Xinhua news agency reported that Chinese carriers had previously complained of problems with E-190 aircraft, including cracks in the turbine plates and flight control system errors. China’s Civil Aviation Administration organized a workshop in June to discuss the concerns, Xinhua said."

These are well-built aircraft, aren't they??

[SYDCBRWOD]

Originally Posted by UALdave

Very sad indeed. Here's a quote from the NY Times article on the crash that worries me:

"The state-run Xinhua news agency reported that Chinese carriers had previously complained of problems with E-190 aircraft, including cracks in the turbine plates and flight control system errors. China’s Civil Aviation Administration organized a workshop in June to discuss the concerns, Xinhua said."

These are well-built aircraft, aren't they??

Either the chinese carriers are 'doing it wrong' or there has been a massive worldwide conspiracy to keep all the E-Jet problems hushed up (600 sold). The state run newsagency suddenly tries apportioning blame elsewhere - could it be that the blame could be otherwise pinned on the Chinese authorities that run the airports, the government run weather service, the government run organisation that certifies the pilots and airline? I'm suspicious that the only finger pointing so far is on the one aspect (important though it may be) that was not under government control.

Virgin Blue has been running the 'Jungle Jets' here for quite a few years - I haven't been hearing a massive number of problems with these aircraft.

[old timer]

Originally Posted by UALdave

Very sad indeed. Here's a quote from the NY Times article on the crash that worries me:

"The state-run Xinhua news agency reported that Chinese carriers had previously complained of problems with E-190 aircraft, including cracks in the turbine plates and flight control system errors. China’s Civil Aviation Administration organized a workshop in June to discuss the concerns, Xinhua said."

These are well-built aircraft, aren't they??

for sure , there are turbin blades designe issue on the GE34-10 engines. several engines were found with cracks and missing material which caused some in flight shut downs in addition to some concern over some deffects in the combustion chambers
however it is early to determin the cause of the crash to see if it related to the engines or not but it will be intresting to find out

it is a tragic event and may GOD be with those who lost their lives and their love ones

GE were in the process of producing a new improved turbin blades but several un-modified engines are still flying

[Theoddkiwi]

I have just completed my training on them. They are very glitchy aircraft due to their heavy use of electronics. But they are very clever aircraft really. I have to admit there are some qwerky design features but nothing that would cause me anything to be concerned with.

From what i have learnt most issues are really with maintenance rather than flying. Its an aircraft you need to be patient with and FOLLOW THE AMM exactly, You cannot rush E-Jet tests. If any airline does not maintain them properly like any airliner, it will eventually bite you hard.

They have all of the normal modern protective systems so there should be no reason for the aircraft in itself to be the cause of a crash. So for them to be pointing their fingers at Embrear is a bit premature.

We all know CFIT is most often a result of poor CRM as opposed to solely a faulty aircraft.

[MCM]

SYDCBRWOD,

You clearly haven't been listening to anyone from Virgin then.

The EMB aircraft have been nothing but a nightmare techincally for VB, and have spent many hours on the ground unserviceable. It will be part of the reason for their expected removal from the fleet soon.

[old timer]

Originally Posted by MCM

SYDCBRWOD,

You clearly haven't been listening to anyone from Virgin then.

The EMB aircraft have been nothing but a nightmare techincally for VB, and have spent many hours on the ground unserviceable. It will be part of the reason for their expected removal from the fleet soon.

from over 3 years experiance : As far as maint. concern it is freindly acft to maintain if you follow the AMM, however the engine turbin blades the avilability of spare parts in addition to the poor support from EMB in case of AOG ARE what normally keep these acft on ground longer than airbus and Boeing,

[SYDCBRWOD]

Originally Posted by MCM

SYDCBRWOD,

You clearly haven't been listening to anyone from Virgin then.

The EMB aircraft have been nothing but a nightmare techincally for VB, and have spent many hours on the ground unserviceable. It will be part of the reason for their expected removal from the fleet soon.

6 x E170's going very shortly, E190's to remain. Wasn't aware they were considered to be lemons. Being based in Canberra I've flown on them quite a few times - never had a cancellation yet.

[justLOT787]

So what is so mechanically wrong with the E-jets that is so hard to maintain them. Are they to small or just have one too many parts?

[Theoddkiwi]

Originally Posted by justLOT787

So what is so mechanically wrong with the E-jets that is so hard to maintain them. Are they to small or just have one too many parts?

The Aileron cables have been wearing our prematurely, but scheduled inspections should find these easily enough.
The -8E combustor wears out too fast (which is GE's fault really not Embraer)

Apart from that is parts availability and Glitchy electronics, but again from what i have seen so far these are issues that occur on the ground and not in the air and that is because many of the issues are not shown on EICAS until the aircraft is on the ground and the pilot is non the wiser nor is his ability to fly the aircraft compromised. In flight EICAS offers only need to know failures which is the normal design method used today.

From what i have read. This crash occured at a new airport that has no precision landing aids eg ILS, is located in mountainous area and the approach was conducted at night in fog. So perhaps an accident waiting to happen.

Apparently China Southern will only fly in there during the day after deciding it was too risky at night.

[TeeVee]

a pilot friend once said to me that embraer basically just assembles the parts and that nearly the entire aircraft is comprised of american made stuff. true?

[Theoddkiwi]

Originally Posted by TeeVee

a pilot friend once said to me that embraer basically just assembles the parts and that nearly the entire aircraft is comprised of american made stuff. true?

Maybe but the doors are copies of the A320 doors and ridiculously complicated and easy to blow the escape slide if you don't know what your doing.

In simple terms it is almost entirely run off the Honeywell Primus EPIC Avionic system and is in simple terms a GA/Business Jet thats been given a larger passenger cabin then asked to be thrashed by busy commercial operators.

You could argue it struggles with the thrashed by commercial operator bit.