Pilots Nodded Off Before Landing?

[ATFS_Crash]

Pilots of a Northwest Airlines flight approaching Minneapolis International Airport Wednesday night temporarily lost radio contact with air-traffic controllers and apparently overshot their destination by about 100 miles.

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the incident as a possible case of pilots nodding off at the controls, according to government and industry officials familiar with the matter.

Controllers were able to re-establish contact with the Airbus A320, these people said, and the plane eventually landed safely without injuries. The plane was en route from San Diego to Minneapolis. Details are still emerging and the safety board is expected to release some information later Thursday. But based on preliminary indications, industry and government officials believe the crew may have briefly fallen asleep, flown past the airport, and then circled back to land.

Source and full story.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125623517851801783.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories

[Deadstick]

This one smells like a major spanking coming.

[TeeVee]

this makes no sense to me whatsoever. the article states that they were at cruising altitude of 37k and contact was lost for 78 minutes. my assumption is that they were traveling at cruising speed of a minimum of 500 mph. that would mean that they flew for roughly 1/3 of the distance without answering their radios or checking in at waypoints???

sounds like crap to me. i don't know much about this stuff but i would venture a guess that some f-16's or other interceptors would have paid the flight crew an up close visit.

78 minutes of no response while flying over the CONUS? hmmmm

[AVION1]

What about some communication malfunction ?, probably they were on the wrong frequencies !!

[ATFS_Crash]

The pilots alleged excuse sounds more lamebrain than the alleged unofficial preliminary authorities suggestion that they fell to sleep.

The pilots of a Northwest Airlines jetliner told authorities they got into a heated argument over airline policies – and ended up overflying their destination of Minneapolis by 150 miles on Wednesday.

(sounds like some of the disturbing alleged pilots on this message board. Perhaps I should say more like former members. Banned.)
Source and full story
http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news...in_argume.html

they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness

Source and full story

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/23/science/earth/23plane.html

flight 188

What about some communication malfunction ?, probably they were on the wrong frequencies !!

I would be skeptical of that. Wouldn't that require all the radios to be on the wrong frequencies? Don't airliners typically have multiple radios on multiple frequencies? Wouldn't that mean that they would've had their emergency radio shutdown or on the wrong frequency also? Sounds unlikely.

i would venture a guess that some f-16's or other interceptors would have paid the flight crew an up close visit.

Military fighter jets in two locations were on alert after communication was lost with the NWA plane. Pilots were in the jets on the tarmacs, fueled up and waiting for orders

Source and full story

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/northwest_flight_188_minneapolis_airport_oct_22_2009

[TeeVee]

another reason to place automation on board. say they really did nod off into deep sleep fo so long that the plane was in danger of running out of fuel. since i don't believe they can call FA's in the back from the ground, which post 9-11 is useless anyway, several hundred people would die.

now, if you could assume control over the plane from the ground, you could land it and beat the crap out of the two sleepy head pilots before firing them and stripping their licenses.

oversimplified? of course! but i'm just sayin....

[Gabriel]

they can call FA's in the back from the ground, which post 9-11 is useless anyway

You can still kick and punch the cockpit door. Sire, it won't open. But it will still make noise like hell.

[ATFS_Crash]

since i don't believe they can call FA's in the back from the ground, which post 9-11 is useless anyway

You can still kick and punch the cockpit door. Sire, it won't open. But it will still make noise like hell.

Allegedly.

The pilots didn't become aware of their situation until a flight attendant contacted them through an intercom from the cabin to the cockpit, said a source familiar with the investigation who wasn't authorized to speak publicly and asked not to be named.

Source and full story (AP)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jx2fJRl2HA8EkI9Zi8Qa1yuvjYdQD9BGH63G0

A320s are equipped with a phone-like device that airline dispatchers can use to contact the crew, said Shirley Phillips, a former simulator instructor for US Airways who has flown the A320.

"It's fairly loud," she said. "There's lots of whistles and bells and things in the Airbus that all signify different things, but it has a pretty distinctive sound to it. I wouldn't say that you would mistake it for anything else.

Source and full story.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569201,00.html

NTSB Advisory

http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2009/091022.html

[W7PSK]

another reason to place automation on board. say they really did nod off into deep sleep fo so long that the plane was in danger of running out of fuel. since i don't believe they can call FA's in the back from the ground, which post 9-11 is useless anyway, several hundred people would die.

now, if you could assume control over the plane from the ground, you could land it and beat the crap out of the two sleepy head pilots before firing them and stripping their licenses.

oversimplified? of course! but i'm just sayin....

Boeing has a nice Crew Alert system, that would alert them if no input in say 15 minutes (set by customer), and requires an input (Mike key, button push, knob turn) and would increase the alarm frequency as time passes.

[ATFS_Crash]

I just heard on the news allegedly that this aircraft had one of the older flight recorders that only records the last 30 minutes of the flight; therefore we will likely never know for sure if the pilots were telling the truth if they were arguing or if they fell asleep.

Either way the pilots are at fault. However it would have been nice to know what happened to best be able to prevent a recurrence.

I am skeptical that pilots were arguing so intensely that they did not notice radio calls or cockpit alarms.

[TeeVee]

Boeing has a nice Crew Alert system, that would alert them if no input in say 15 minutes (set by customer), and requires an input (Mike key, button push, knob turn) and would increase the alarm frequency as time passes.

Hmmmm, is this a jibe at those "cheap airbuses?"

just kidding! But it is good to know that Boeing includes "alarm clocks" as standard equipment.

[TeeVee]

I just heard on the news allegedly that this aircraft had one of the older flight recorders that only records the last 30 minutes of the flight; therefore we will likely never know for sure if the pilots were telling the truth if they were arguing or if they fell asleep.

Either way the pilots are at fault. However it would have been nice to know what happened to best be able to prevent a recurrence.

I am skeptical that pilots were arguing so intensely that they did not notice radio calls or cockpit alarms.

imagine?!? they play the tape and all that is heard is snoring!

now, correct me if i was misinformed but a 737 pilot for a local charter company here in FL told me that CVR's can be erased by the crew on the ground. is this true?

[TeeVee]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8321748.stm

so the BBC reported that two fighter jets were put on alert.

tell me something, how often to domestic flights have to check in verbally or otherwise? i mean, seriously! where is the level orange/yellow/red/whatever post-9/11 security if we allow a flight to continue to fly after it fails to check in as required???

[Gabriel]

CVR's can be erased by the crew on the ground. is this true?

Yes.

[Gabriel]

tell me something, how often to domestic flights have to check in verbally or otherwise? i mean, seriously! where is the level orange/yellow/red/whatever post-9/11 security if we allow a flight to continue to fly after it fails to check in as required???

I don't know, but the plane was declard NORDO by the ACT about 1 hour and 20 minutes before they re-established radio contac.

(NORDO = No RaDiO: that ATC is calling and there is no answer)