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Southwest Airlines Nose Gear Collapse at LGA

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  • Originally posted by Evan View Post
    Aviation may no longer be exclusivley a man's world, but last I checked it is still a dress-like-a-man's world. I don't think there's been a skirt in the driver's seat since Scottish Airlines shut down. Are female pilots allowed to wear skirts on duty...maybe show a little leg... or would that just up the accident rate?
    I have only seen two pilots wearing skirts in the entire 24 years I've been flying in the airlines.

    The first caught my attention because I'd never seen a pilot in a skirt before. She was standing with her back to me. When I walked past, I had to quicken my step because I immediately burst out laughing. I had heard about this pilot from the time I started with the airline; when I asked what this particular pilot looked like the reply was "Mrs. Doubtfire". What made me laugh was that the description fit to a "T". Mrs. Doubtfire... I mean "Captain Doubtfire" had been a fighter pilot in the Air Force before joining the airlines and subsequently having major personal "systems modifications" done years before I got on with the company. I never had the chance to fly with her and from what I heard, she flew a good airplane. In fact the only complaint I heard was that she was a little too forthcoming with details of her extensive personal modifications.

    The second pilot I saw in a skirt was unremarkable.
    The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.

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    • Could be that getting to the top rank of the pilot ladder REQUIRES a woman to be pretty thick skinned. I mean how much that was politically incorrecxt might she encounter among male peers? Could be it just brings the chin out and the determination to rise to the top becomes stronger. A male might find comradery and not get so "tough".

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      • Originally posted by snydersnapshots View Post
        The second pilot I saw in a skirt was unremarkable.
        Hmmmmmm.... What are you hiding?

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
          Could be that getting to the top rank of the pilot ladder REQUIRES a woman to be pretty thick skinned. I mean how much that was politically incorrecxt might she encounter among male peers? Could be it just brings the chin out and the determination to rise to the top becomes stronger. A male might find comradery and not get so "tough".
          That may have been true of the first women who got hired--gals like Emily Warner at Frontier and Bonnie Tiburzi at American. There was most definitely the "another empty kitchen" mindset among some of the male pilots. But now women pilots are so common and society has changed so much that there is not the animosity toward them that there was in the early days. The thing about the early female pilots: they flew damn well and it was soon evident to the guys they flew with that they earned their job on the basis of their flying skill, not their plumbing.

          So no, I don't believe women have to be any more thick-skinned now than men do. Certainly not to the point of ending up with a reputation of being hard to fly with and having first officers avoid them.
          The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.

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          • Originally posted by snydersnapshots View Post
            That may have been true of the first women who got hired--gals like Emily Warner at Frontier and Bonnie Tiburzi....
            On average, women are supposed to have better fine motor skills.

            That leads me to two thoughts:

            They made good welders in WWII (actually a fine skill)

            I think they'd be good hand flying an ILS in a Boeing (not so sure about the side stick business).

            Ok, three thoughts...physique...I'm male.
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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            • Originally posted by snydersnapshots View Post
              So no, I don't believe women have to be any more thick-skinned now than men do. Certainly not to the point of ending up with a reputation of being hard to fly with and having first officers avoid them.
              Woman have always been more thick-skinned than men. That dainty thing is just their way of putting us to work. And men have always been subconciously terrified of their capricious resolve (see: Medea). Their one weakness could be the primacy of their emotions, something they tend to have more difficulty surrendering to rationale. Certainly this is a broad generalization (which I've always found to be true). I wonder what studies have been done on the performance of women in stressful situations where emotions might impair their judgement. History is full of exceptional women who defy this stereotype (which is somewhat biologically supported) but perhaps we should still provide a slightly different appraoch to the needs and scrutiny of female pilots than male pilots.

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              • I still think in a situation where the woman is expected to command, there may be a tendency to overdo it, expecting the man to feel emasculated to take orders from a woman. Of course, a lot of women have people skills that they use rather than being brusque and overbearing. People are individuals, after all.

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                • Reportedly the pilot has been fired
                  (Reuters) - Southwest Airlines said on Wednesday it fired the pilot of a plane that crashed at New York's LaGuardia Airport in July after it touched down on its front landing gear. "Upon completion of our internal review of the Flight 345 accident, last week the captain was terminated and the first officer is being required to undergo additional training," Southwest spokeswoman Whitney Eichinger said in a statement. The carrier added that it was cooperating in the National Transportation Safety Board probe of the incident. ...

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                  • Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
                    Reportedly the pilot has been fired
                    http://news.yahoo.com/southwest-fire...--finance.html
                    I liked this part:

                    Southwest said landing on the nose gear before the main landing gear touched down was not in line with its normal procedures.
                    I'd add that crashing against a mountain was against American Airlines procedures, crashing short of the runway was against Asiana procedures, and overrunning the runway on landing was against Air France procedures.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                    • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      I liked this part:
                      Southwest said landing on the nose gear before the main landing gear touched down was not in line with its normal procedures.
                      .......
                      Are you trying to imply that healthy nose-high touchdown at a healthy slow speed is some sort of fundamental airmanship rule that can be appled across a wide range of aircraft without having to be specifically listed in the particular aircraft operating manual?
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                      • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                        Are you trying to imply that healthy nose-high touchdown at a healthy slow speed is some sort of fundamental airmanship rule that can be appled across a wide range of aircraft without having to be specifically listed in the particular aircraft operating manual?
                        Not exactly. I'm implying that landing nose first, crashing against a mountain, crashing short of the runway or overunning the runway on landing were the CONSEQUENCE of OTHER mistakes or violation of procedures, and not THE mistake or violation itself.

                        "I have an order from the President of the United States: Don't get shot down"

                        Does this sound familiar?

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                        • NTSB Report......Enjoy........

                          Parlour Talker Extraordinaire

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                          • I love how the NTSB's website is still stuck in 1996

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