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Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

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  • #16
    no CFIT

    If a plane comes down nearly 30000 feet in less then 6 minutes i would doubt CFIT right? Greets Mike

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Rapha477 View Post
      they sent MAYDAY...and already at low level
      According to French Aviation authority (DGAC), it's not the crew, but air traffic controlers that declared emergency after they lost radar contact . There was no MAYDAY.

      The confusion comes from a mistatement by French Ministry of Transposrt earlier today.

      "
      Contrairement à ce qu'a affirmé le secrétaire d'Etat aux transports, Alain Vidalies, dans la matinée, l'équipage de l'avion n'a pas émis d'appel de détresse, a indiqué à l'Agence France-Presse la Direction générale de l'aviation civile. "L'équipage n'a pas émis de 'mayday'. C'est le contrôle aérien qui a décidé de déclarer l'avion en détresse car il n'avait plus aucun contact avec l'équipage et l'avion", a-t-elle précisé.




      mardi 24 mars 2015 14h43

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      • #18
        Sorry, now if even ministers are not reliables...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Rapha477 View Post
          Sorry, now if even ministers are not reliables...
          Hmmmm.. I'd say government officials have two choices here and both are going to be questioned:

          1. Say nothing until you know something for sure - and seem ignorant (or covering up) in the meantime.

          2. Say something, risk being wrong, and be critized for giving out incorrect information.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
            Hmmmm.. I'd say government officials have two choices here and both are going to be questioned:

            1. Say nothing until you know something for sure - and seem ignorant (or covering up) in the meantime.

            2. Say something, risk being wrong, and be critized for giving out incorrect information.
            2a. Say what you know, stress repeatedly that it is preliminary/incomplete/unverified/etc. information, and still be criticized for providing a picture that is not 100% correct and complete.

            I don't by any means always agree with what politicians/officials do, but in no-win situations like this I do feel sorry for them.
            Be alert! America needs more lerts.

            Eric Law

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            • #21
              I know it's too much speculation but I'm thinking of 2 things.

              -Lufthansa incident type of decent were they had to disable the autopilot but didn't realize it until it was too late.

              -Violent decompression with expedite descent and distracted pilots?
              AD.com apocalypse survivor. 727 Fan.

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              • #22
                Sounds like a sudden decompression...!
                Even in the worst case scenario of a sudden decompression, I would ask the ATC for clearance to go to 10,000 Ft. because I don't want to crash my airplane with another traffic.
                So, everything sounds like a "catastrophic sudden decompression". Midair collision? explosion at the cargo compartment?
                A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by elaw View Post
                  2a. Say what you know, stress repeatedly that it is preliminary/incomplete/unverified/etc. information, and still be criticized for providing a picture that is not 100% correct and complete.

                  I don't by any means always agree with what politicians/officials do, but in no-win situations like this I do feel sorry for them.
                  2b. Let knowledgeable people speak to media. Explain that as Ministry in Charge, you are responsible for ressources being allocated, and priorities given. Period. Tell the press :
                  i. who is in charge of SAR operations (French Gendarmerie), technical investigation (French BEA and German DFS probably), criminal investigation (Procureur of Nice).
                  ii. that those independant authorities (the two latter, Gendarmerie is not independant) will convene Press conference when they will have information.

                  I'm fed up of policitians that jump on every occasion to capture crowd attention by playing on emotions. I sadly remember even our French President, promising very seriously that "all bodies" from Air Algerie crash would be carried back to France, without understanding that there is no "body" to recover after an airliner crashes nose down.

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                  • #24
                    Images from the scene ...



                    Daily Mail Article and images

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                    • #25
                      There's a graph plot of the altitude and VS data on Pprune that seems to indicate phugoid occillations in the descent. I think this suggests that the pilots were not in command (incapacited?) and/or that the A/C might have been in OPEN DES mode. The VS seems too shallow for a controlled decompression scenario. And of course no comms...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bryan View Post
                        Images from the scene ...
                        Saw that and another one on avherald. Is the large scattering of very small pieces consistent with impact? BBC reported largest piece was the size of a car.

                        RIP.

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                        • #27
                          Would the recorders survive that impact?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ultraflight View Post
                            Would the recorders survive that impact?
                            The recorders are designed to withstand a lot of force and heat. One of them has already been found at the crash site of D-AIPX.

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                            • #29
                              This has to be a freak swiss-cheese scenario to make any sense. It seems like a crew incapacitation event but somebody had to input a command to descend. The descent appears to be open (idle thrust/speed on elevator) with lateral guidance. Perhaps, on the verge of hypoxia, they selected OP DES and spun down to 6,800' and left in the current airspeed, then lost consciousness. AvHerald reports that the A/C appears to have leveled off at 6,800' about a minute prior to impact.

                              The trouble with this is the clear warnings (crickets, master warning, pressurization page up on the SD) when the cabin alt goes above 9550'. There's still plenty of time to don masks and deal with the issue. So what's the next slice of cheese here? A latent malfunction of the crew 02 system? Flawed procedure delaying the masks? Situational awareness?

                              How could this happen to a Lufthansa crewed and maintained flight? I hope this doesn't lead to another Air France-style revelation...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by sjwk View Post
                                Saw that and another one on avherald. Is the large scattering of very small pieces consistent with impact? BBC reported largest piece was the size of a car.

                                RIP.
                                I saw the France2 video footage of the site.

                                The small pieces are scattered down the gulleys of a large cliff face.
                                Looks very like what you would expect from the plane flying into the upper part of the cliff at high speed and a slight angle, which would fit with all of the reports and the maps of the area.
                                ADCR
                                Tongue tied and twisted just an earth bound misfit

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