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  • #16
    Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
    Sen. Edward Markey has officially said he will “ask” the FAA about whether “electronic cigarettes should be banned on flights.”
    tell the good senator markey that he should be asking the faa if all batteries, INCLUDING THE ONE IN HIS PERSONAL CRACKBERRY, IPHONE, WHATEVER, should be banned.

    how stupid is this?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
      "Relieve the cabin of pressure" Is that a theoretical situation? Or does it happen often enough to warrant resulting dangers? And if toxic fumes are in the ventilation, is that worse than having no oxygen? By the way, why do these smoke-filled cockpits happen if pilots can just turn off ventilation? I wondered with that Halifax crash why oxygen masks didn't drop on them like they theoretically drop on passengers (I say theoretically because I've listened to that spiel by the attendants every flight but not once saw it actually happen. Like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, I have to take it on faith of its existence. Never was told my any of my frequent flying friends and family of putting on that mask, either)
      flight crew's masks don't drop, they hang next to their seats. theory being that they know when to put it on and won't mess with them like every tom, dick and harriet in the back.

      as for having them drop, yes they drop.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
        "Relieve the cabin of pressure" Is that a theoretical situation? Or does it happen often enough to warrant resulting dangers?
        Figure this:
        Your airplane is on fire. Cabin fire, I mean.
        The plane lands successfully, but because fire damage to some systems, the air/ground system fails. The plane doesn't "know" that the plane has landed and hence doesn't relieve all the remaining pressurization. The persons in the plane want to escape, but they can't open the plug doors against the differential pressure. They are designed this way to prevent that they are open in flight.

        Do you want your pilot to have the ability to relieve the cabin pressure or not? This has happened once.

        In another instance, another cabin fire, the cabin filled up with too much black smoke and fumes that it was impossible to breath. The ventilation systems (even the emergency ones like the RAM air) were not enough to clear the air. The crew descended to a breathable altitude, depressurized the plane by manually opening the outflow valve, and opened the doors (yes, in flight). Unfortunately the plane still crashed due to the fire damage, but they tried.

        In another event, a malfunction with the pressurization system was increasing the cabin pressure beyond limits. The crew opened the outflow valve a bit to relieve some pressure.

        And in another occasion, another malfunction in the pressurization system was making the cabin lose pressure. Before the pressure went too low and the masks dropped, the crew closed the outflow valve.

        And if toxic fumes are in the ventilation, is that worse than having no oxygen?
        Toxic fumes can kill you in seconds. Hypoxia can leave you unconscious in seconds, but will take a few minutes to damage you permanently. And for hypoxia you have the masks. For toxic fumes you have nothing because the masks mix O2 with cabin air.

        But why are we discussing this to begin with? As most thing in airplanes, especially critical things, ventilation and pressurization systems have redundancy (typically one system per engine). So engine 1 is sputtering oil and aerosols of that oil is getting into the cabin? Kill pack 1. Pack 2 will be more than enough to maintain an adequate ventilation and pressurization.

        By the way, why do these smoke-filled cockpits happen if pilots can just turn off ventilation?
        Turn of the ventilation works when the smoke/fumes are coming throught the ventilation system. That won't help if the smoke/fume is generated by a faulty electric oven in a galley.

        I wondered with that Halifax crash why oxygen masks didn't drop on them like they theoretically drop on passengers (I say theoretically because I've listened to that spiel by the attendants every flight but not once saw it actually happen. Like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, I have to take it on faith of its existence. Never was told my any of my frequent flying friends and family of putting on that mask, either)
        Well, that speaks words for how safe aviation is, with suicidal pilot being allowed to touch buttons and levers and all, don't ya think? That, or it's a tale. Your call. And I'm out.

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • #19
          Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
          (...)I wondered with that Halifax crash why oxygen masks didn't drop on them like they theoretically drop on passengers (...)
          Some suggested reading for you, EconomyClass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111
          There was an actual fire in the cockpit of that flight, not just fumes that overwhelmed the pilots.

          Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
          (...) (I say theoretically because I've listened to that spiel by the attendants every flight but not once saw it actually happen. Like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, I have to take it on faith of its existence. Never was told my any of my frequent flying friends and family of putting on that mask, either)
          Then be glad it has never happened to you or anyone you care about... (By the way, there actually ARE oxygen masks behind these panels. I've seen them, though luckily not yet in an emergency.)

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