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  • #16
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    Actually, it was the Fiesta Nacional del Surubí.

    A fishing festival.
    Any self respecting fish would have been 100 miles away from that lot.

    Typical Latinos though, give them something fast to drive or fly and their brains automatically disconnect from their bodies.
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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    • #17
      Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
      Typical Latinos though, give them something fast to drive or fly and their brains automatically disconnect from their bodies.
      WRONG -we also disconnect our brains on slow vehicles.
      "I know that at times I can be a little over the top." -ITS

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Not_Karl View Post
        WRONG -we also disconnect our brains on slow vehicles.
        Well said that man. Nice one.
        If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
          ...in the United States of America, we call it crop dusting...
          So, since no one bit...a professional, trained pilot in a high performance aircraft does a fairly significant dive to a fairly significantly low level-off, flies along the ground in close proximity to it (and objects on the ground), and then makes a sharp pull up.





          So, are the Professional Argentinian Aerobatic Pilots making maneuvers that are any more dangerous or extreme than the Professional American Agricultural Pilots?

          I'd argue that they are not.

          I do acknowledge that diving on rice fields where you might kill yourself and some rice plants versus diving on a huge flotilla of speed boats crossing a choppy lake with wide open throttles where you might take out some boaters and an Asian carp or two, does represent a slight difference in risk.

          Of course- taking two flights on an A321 is twice as dangerous as taking one flight too.
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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          • #20
            Sadly the only way pilots like these are usually ever stopped is when they kill themselves and/or other people.

            This is the classic example of course:

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 3WE View Post
              So, since no one bit...a professional, trained pilot in a high performance aircraft does a fairly significant dive to a fairly significantly low level-off, flies along the ground in close proximity to it (and objects on the ground), and then makes a sharp pull up.





              So, are the Professional Argentinian Aerobatic Pilots making maneuvers that are any more dangerous or extreme than the Professional American Agricultural Pilots?

              I'd argue that they are not.

              I do acknowledge that diving on rice fields where you might kill yourself and some rice plants versus diving on a huge flotilla of speed boats crossing a choppy lake with wide open throttles where you might take out some boaters and an Asian carp or two, does represent a difference in risk.
              I didn't bite because I thought it was a joke (or is it?)

              The last paragraph above makes ALL the difference.
              What would you say of a corp duster fumigating the field of the football stadium in the halftime of the Super Bowl?

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                ...I thought it was a joke (or is it?)...
                Black or white thinking today?

                It's a joke AND serious.

                While it LOOKS bad, I don't think your friends from your local Flying club del Argentinia are careless nor wreckless. Their maneuvers were well within their capability, the plane's capability, adequate clearance from the boat drivers and nothing that Ag pilots don't do every day.
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                  Black or white thinking today?

                  It's a joke AND serious.

                  While it LOOKS bad, I don't think your friends from your local Flying club del Argentinia are careless nor wreckless. Their maneuvers were well within their capability, the plane's capability, adequate clearance from the boat drivers and nothing that Ag pilots don't do every day.
                  Whaaaaaaaat?

                  What video were you watching, 3WE?
                  What this guy did was careless, reckless (and wreckless too since there was no wreck), negligent, illegal and stupid.

                  Less than how many inches do you need to consider the clearance with manned boats not adequate?


                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    ...Less than how many inches do you need to consider the clearance with manned boats not adequate...
                    Well, there's the black and white answer: Any number greater than zero.

                    ...and the fuzzy gray answer is that I'm seeing 3 feet and climbing fast in your frame grab...

                    ...not unlike an Ag Plane flying over a crop...
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      That may be the physics definition of "enough clearance" (although I'd argue that it must be > 0, 0 is not quite enough) but certainly not the legal definition.

                      I'll admit I don't know the rules in Argentina, but in the US it's:
                      Originally posted by Wikipedia
                      Over Open Water or Sparsely Populated Areas: an altitude allowing for a linear distance greater than 500 feet from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure;
                      and
                      Originally posted by Wikipedia
                      Anywhere: an altitude allowing a safe emergency landing without undue hazard to person or property on the ground;
                      I'm pretty sure what those guys did would not meet either rule.
                      Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                      Eric Law

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by elaw View Post
                        I'm pretty sure what those guys did would not meet either rule.
                        Concur.

                        ..and I'm being typically argumentative and being a splitter.

                        Indeed, likely a gross violation of rules and bad judgement (and perhaps, yes, careless).

                        As to the maneuvers and it being a NEAR TOTAL AIR DISASTER!!!!!, I say, "No, it was fat (albeit not super fat), dumb and happy within envelope, in-control, yada yada yada (not so sure it's truly reckless, if they are using ordinary aerobatic skills).
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                          Concur.

                          ..and I'm being typically argumentative and being a splitter.

                          Indeed, likely a gross violation of rules and bad judgement (and perhaps, yes, careless).

                          As to the maneuvers and it being a NEAR TOTAL AIR DISASTER!!!!!, I say, "No, it was fat (albeit not super fat), dumb and happy within envelope, in-control, yada yada yada (not so sure it's truly reckless, if they are using ordinary aerobatic skills).
                          Well 3WE, I didn't know thatr we had such different mindsets.

                          For me, MARGINS is a top priority regarding aviation safety.

                          Things can go wrong, so you want time and distance to be able to take corrective action and you don't want to put at risk more persons than the minimum needed.

                          Crop dusting has a specific purpose that requires this kind of maneuver, has its own inherent risks beyond the normal risks of operating an airplane, and is not done over persons, especially not over 3rd parties.

                          If this doesn't qualify as reckless, careless and negligent for you, I don't know what would.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                            Well 3WE, I didn't know thatr we had such different mindsets.

                            For me, MARGINS is a top priority regarding aviation safety........

                            ..............Crop dusting has a specific purpose that requires this kind of maneuver, has its own inherent risks beyond the normal risks of operating an airplane, and is not done over persons, especially not over 3rd parties..........
                            ...........and is performed after VERY careful planning and the setting of predetermined abort margins.

                            .......as against these clowns who fly with no planning and no allowance for the fact that a boat at sea level can easily bounce on a wave to an altitude of 10 feet or more.....not much help when you are flying at 8 feet.
                            If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                              [Cropdusting] is performed after VERY careful planning and the setting of predetermined abort margins.
                              Really?

                              How many aerial applicators have you visited with?
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Quite a few fields actually. I have a friend in Arizona who flies a crop duster and I went out with his support crew. He surveys the fields to be dusted noting light poles, telegraph poles, farm buildings etc. He publicises locally the fact that low level crop dusting is going to take place and and informs the local police as his aircraft has sometimes been reported as crashing with smoke pouring from it !

                                Next question ?
                                If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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