Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Jpmkam View Post
    Air carriers should adopt a pre-mental screening for hiring, in addition to adding annual evaluation for mental health issues as part of the re-certification process:


    OMG half of us will probably loose our jobs!

    You have to be a little nuts to hump around the globe for 15 -17 days a month!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      OMG half of us will probably loose our jobs!
      It's about time!

      Look at all the folks on Internet forums who know how to do your job better than you do. I know I certainly have a lot of hours on your plane from MSFS, I do know what you mean that it takes a few extra miles to get set up on a good approach profile.

      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • But in this case, the discussion will focus on how to preserve the FC 's privacy and how to avoid FC members not disclosing their jobs to "non-company" doctors (as previously mentioned by someone).
        Or preventing FC members from seeking any form of medical help for 'touchy' medical areas such as mental health, eyesight, sleep problems etc.

        OMG half of us will probably loose our jobs!

        You have to be a little nuts to hump around the globe for 15 -17 days a month!
        Too bloody true .

        Comment


        • [QUOTE=MCM;630535]Or preventing FC members from seeking any form of medical help for 'touchy' medical areas such as mental health, eyesight, sleep problems etc.


          Or just ignore the problem and put it under the rug.

          Seven known cases of pilot suicide in civil aviation with fatalities in the last 30 years since Marroc Royal, 1994. Average of one case each four years .
          Excluding MH 370 that is not confirmed.

          Closer than we think

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MCM View Post
            Or preventing FC members from seeking any form of medical help for 'touchy' medical areas such as mental health, eyesight, sleep problems etc.
            When you have hundreds of lives in your hands, at what point do ethics surrender to personal needs? Do pilots really lose sight of the magnitude of their responsibility? I realize how hard it would be to report yourself out of a job but come on...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Evan View Post
              When you have hundreds of lives in your hands, at what point do ethics surrender to personal needs? Do pilots really lose sight of the magnitude of their responsibility? I realize how hard it would be to report yourself out of a job but come on...
              Relative statistics would say that unhealthy, crazy, drunk, tired truck drivers, bus drivers, car drivers, and gun owners are a big problem with airline pilots being not particularly significant.

              I know that doesn't align with the media sensation factors, but we'd save more lives if we focused on them instead of the "nut job" pilot community.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                Relative statistics would say that unhealthy, crazy, drunk, tired truck drivers, bus drivers, car drivers, and gun owners are a big problem with airline pilots being not particularly significant.

                I know that doesn't align with the media sensation factors, but we'd save more lives if we focused on them instead of the "nut job" pilot community.
                "Statistic is just like bikinis. Shows wonderful parts but hides the best ones".

                It is not the matter of comparing the most dangerous situations or which situation kills more people.
                But recognize (or not) a problem and face it (or not).
                If the aviation industry pursues zero-rate accident index on every aspects, here comes a new one.

                Comment


                • Guys, let me clarify my position regarding the sanity and criminality of this guy.

                  Those who say "he didn't care of the rest of the people". Of course he didn't. He intentionally crashed a plane and, in the process, killed other 149. Whether he understood what he was doing or not, it is a tautology that he didn't care.

                  Now, whether he cared of the rest of the people or not is not the point. When was the last time that a murdered cared of the health and prosperity of their victims?

                  The point if he UNDERSTOOD what he was doing to the other 149 people and if he UNDERSTOOD that it was bad (*).

                  If (and I said IF) he understood, he is a fucking criminal sonofabitch and if by some divine miracle he had survived he would have been given the maximum penalty and he would have deserved every bit of it and then some.

                  On the other hand, if (and here goes another IF) his state of mind didn't let him understand what he was doing to the other people, then the guy was insane and I feel really sorry for him.

                  And, yes, there are 50 shades of gray in between.

                  Which was the case here? We don't know and we may never know.

                  (*) A mother killed her young daughter by drowning her in the bathtub. She was very conscious that she was killing her, and that she would die, and that that was irreversible, and all that. But she was convinced that God had talked to her and told her to do it, because He had a special mission for her daughter. So she genuinely thought that she was actually was doing something good for her. Further psychiatric evaluation confirmed that she was insane and was not lying. I don't consider that a criminal act at all.

                  (*) A father had just divorced and the divorce was very hostile and went very unfavourable to him. As a revenge, he killed their daughter and left a note saying "I am sorry that I had to reach so far as to kill our daughter. She was not at fault and didn't deserve this end, but it was the only way to make you pay. She paid for your fault". I consider this guy a criminal. As is the FedEx guy; or the mechanic that took a plane of his own airline carrying a gun, knowing his boss would be in the plane, shot his boss, shot the two pilots, shot himself, and the rest of the people died in the subsequent crash. Why? Because he had been fired.

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                    When you have hundreds of lives in your hands, at what point do ethics surrender to personal needs? Do pilots really lose sight of the magnitude of their responsibility? I realize how hard it would be to report yourself out of a job but come on...
                    Well - if you have a mental illness, you might not realize the magnitude of your responsibility. Or if you are a criminal you might not care about it.
                    And if you say "pilots", we are actually talking about less than a handful among millions over the past couple of years.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      Guys, let me clarify my position regarding the sanity and criminality of this guy.(...)
                      Gabriel - I absolutely agree!

                      Comment


                      • Just learned something from tagesschau.de (news website of German public TV channel ARD):

                        "Schon jetzt sind Ärzte und Psychotherapeuten befugt, die Schweigepflicht zu durchbrechen, wenn sie dadurch die Schädigung Dritter verhindern können. In Fällen, in denen es um Leben und Tod geht, sind sie dazu sogar verpflichtet."
                        'Even today, doctors and psychotherapists are authorized to break doctor-patient-confidentiality if they can prevent damage to other persons in doing so. In cases that concern matters of life and death, they are even required to break it.'

                        So, whatever the doctor diagnosed in the F/O, he/she obviously never imagined it would cause this tragedy.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
                          Just learned something from tagesschau.de (news website of German public TV channel ARD):



                          'Even today, doctors and psychotherapists are authorized to break doctor-patient-confidentiality if they can prevent damage to other persons in doing so. In cases that concern matters of life and death, they are even required to break it.'

                          So, whatever the doctor diagnosed in the F/O, he/she obviously never imagined it would cause this tragedy.
                          How could he? If that was years ago? Doctors usually don't go through old records from time to time, checking whether some patient with suicidal tendencies has become a pilot in the meantime. Even if they had all the names of commercial pilots at hand that would be quite a task.

                          Moreover - that guy Lubitz has now been researched pretty extensively. I wonder how much would come up, if you would do that to every single person in a critical position in this country - or around the world, for that matter.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
                            Just learned something from tagesschau.de (news website of German public TV channel ARD):



                            'Even today, doctors and psychotherapists are authorized to break doctor-patient-confidentiality if they can prevent damage to other persons in doing so. In cases that concern matters of life and death, they are even required to break it.'

                            So, whatever the doctor diagnosed in the F/O, he/she obviously never imagined it would cause this tragedy.
                            It makes perfect sense to avoid tragedies

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              ]Whether he understood what he was doing or not, it is a tautology that he didn't care.
                              What I was suggesting (hypothetically) ia that he might have understood what he was doing but felt that it wasn't real, he wasn't real, nothing was real. This is a documented phenomenon in certain conditions of mental stress. Depression alone can create a feeling of disconnection from the reality around you and especially the people within it.

                              Also, I'm not trying to exonerate him here (although this might be temporary insanity), just to understand how a young man fitting his description could do something like this.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                                Relative statistics would say that unhealthy, crazy, drunk, tired truck drivers, bus drivers, car drivers, and gun owners are a big problem with airline pilots being not particularly significant.

                                I know that doesn't align with the media sensation factors, but we'd save more lives if we focused on them instead of the "nut job" pilot community.
                                The old relativity argument. We shouldn't concern ourselves because there are statistically worse things to worry about. Well, let's just pretend this is an avaition safety discussion forum and focus on it anyway.

                                I can't imagine, being an airline pilot, if a doctor told me I was mentally unfit to fly, hiding the fact and climbing into a cockpit. Nor can I imagine not seeking help if I began experiencing anxiety, mental confusion or suicidal thoughts. I think the responsibility of conveying hundreds of lives would be etched into my psyche and the moral dilemma would overwhelm my own sense of career-preservation. It would be like showing up drunk and hoping nobody notices. Knowing on that instinctive level how much danger that poses to so many lives, I would have to take myself out of the game. I hope most pilots have that sense of responsibility.

                                If a rule requiring health providers to report medical condtions to operators would prevent pilots from seeking help, than clearly they don't have that sense of responsibility.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X