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EK pondering 11-across in the 388

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  • EK pondering 11-across in the 388

    It's akin to the 10-across in the 77W. Things are getting pretty ridiculous in the back of the plane. Anyway, just my opinion...

    Source: Business Traveller

  • #2
    Originally posted by Foxtrot View Post
    It's akin to the 10-across in the 77W. Things are getting pretty ridiculous in the back of the plane. Anyway, just my opinion...

    Source: Business Traveller
    Am I wrong or 11-across existed in some high density 747s? (3-5-3)

    Anyway, it says that the seats would bee 1 inch narrower, going from the current 18" to 17" (since 1" taken from 10 seats is just 10", I wonder of the other 7" will come from the aisle).

    I had the "pleasure" to make a 12-hours flight in an AF 777 with 10-across. The seat width was absolutely not a big deal compared with the seat pitch which was shorter than my femur.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #3
      if it were possible to pass an international law requiring all airline executives to spend 5 long haul flights crammed into the center of the rear of one of these sardine cans before subjecting the public to same, i would be all for it.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
        if it were possible to pass an international law requiring all airline executives to spend 5 long haul flights crammed into the center of the rear of one of these sardine cans before subjecting the public to same, i would be all for it.
        Fortunately, we all still have (mostly) free will and can decide if we want to travel under these conditions or not. So I'd say such a law won't be necessary.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
          Fortunately, we all still have (mostly) free will and can decide if we want to travel under these conditions or not to travel at all.
          Fixed. It reminds me of my father when I was a kid:

          "This family is very democratic regarding being a fan of a football team. You are free to choose to be a fan of River or leave."

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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          • #6
            exactly. we have all been enslaved and forced to fly like animals packed into a cattle car. actually, i think cattle get more space.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
              exactly. we have all been enslaved and forced to fly like animals packed into a cattle car. actually, i think cattle get more space.
              Not so.
              As I've said, you can choose not to travel at all.
              Or, if you are wealthy enough, you can choose to pay 3x for a business class seat, or Nx to rent or own a Gulfstream IV.

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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              • #8
                Good move. The income from eco must go up and as you can not raise the ticket price you need to jam more passengers in the same space.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                  Not so.
                  As I've said, you can choose not to travel at all.
                  Or, if you are wealthy enough, you can choose to pay 3x for a business class seat, or Nx to rent or own a Gulfstream IV.
                  i don't buy it. air travel is a necessity for some.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                    i don't buy it. air travel is a necessity for some.
                    True.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                    • #11
                      I'm with TeeVee on this one. Just because you're flying economy doesn't mean anything goes. You are, after all, a human and airlines should respect that. There's a fine line between doing business/being profitable and being ridiculous.

                      Of course, there are still options out there and I can choose not to fly EK, but we all know that if something becomes successful in this business, it's not too long before it gets emulated by other airlines (because the airlines know all too well that most people will need to fly long-haul and that's where they put all that stuff). Hopefully the European airline I fly to/from India will not follow suit in future aircraft coming in by squeezing in one more across than the standard number.

                      Ironically, this goes against Airbus' own recently launched campaign to make the 18" seat in Y an industry standard. Just saying...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Foxtrot View Post
                        Ironically, this goes against Airbus' own recently launched campaign to make the 18" seat in Y an industry standard. Just saying...
                        More or less the same happened to Boeing with the 777 and later again with the 787, where the airlines asked Boeing to squeeze one more seat across than what Boeing was offering.

                        Boeing never intended the 777 to be a "10 across" airplane.

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                        • #13
                          i hate to sound like evan--pushing for even more regulation--but maybe it's time that govt stood up for citizens. simple: once an aircraft is certified for X seats, it stays that way. PERIOD.

                          now that wouldn't prevent boeing from getting an aircraft certified as 10 across but marketing it 8 across with real human sized seats.

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                          • #14
                            s

                            Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                            i hate to sound like evan--pushing for even more regulation--but maybe it's time that govt stood up for citizens. simple: once an aircraft is certified for X seats, it stays that way. PERIOD.

                            now that wouldn't prevent boeing from getting an aircraft certified as 10 across but marketing it 8 across with real human sized seats.
                            Don't worry. The planes are certified for more seats that they usually take. For example, the A-380 was certified for something like 800 pax.

                            Now, I do think that there should be a regulation for minimum sizes, pitch and width so the vast majority of the population can fit with a minimum of dignity (not to mention comfort). To avoid having all seats fit for all sizes (which would mean that the dimensions would be in most cases much more than necessary), there could be a distribution. Invented example: 10% suitabe for percentile 99.5, 30% suitable for percentile 95, 100% suitable for percentile 85. Passengers requiring a "special" seat would be required to declare their height and weight when making their reservation, and the airline will give them priority for a seat fitting them.

                            I have a real problem with seat pitches that are really shorter than my femur, so I really physically, geometrically, don't fit. And I get really angry when I board the plane and see that the 12 seats (10%) that DO have more room (3+3 in the first economy row and 3+3 in the emergency exit) are occupied by random passengers. So the airline has the option to reserve them for bigger (especially taller) passengers, but they choose not to.

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                            • #15
                              i'm sure the aircraft can handle the loads. my point was aimed at the humane factor. as you said, a touch of dignity...

                              i realize it's a super tough business, but as a frequent business traveler, i can see tons of waste, and i'm not an efficiency expert. one example that comes to mind: in nicaragua, where i fly twice per month, AA has like 1/2 million employees dispatching every flight. compared to miami, where you get maybe 2 or 3 gate agents, in nica there are 5 or 6. yes, i know the labor costs in nica are pennies, but pennies add up, and quick.

                              last minute pricing: there was a time when a day or two before a flight the prices would drop. now? they are triple so the airline flies with empty seats. does that make sense? and please, don't tell me that everyone will wait for the last minute to but tickets. it didn't happen years ago and it won't happen now. sure, there will always be some folks that can wait until the last minute but the percentage will be very small.

                              overcharging for "amenities": seriously, do airlines not understand volume? right now, they charge about $6-7 for a tiny bottle of booze and they sell "x" number of those little bottles, which probably cost about $1 each depending on the booze. if they charged $3-4 they would probably sell 3x the number of bottles, resulting in more profit.

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