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Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

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  • Originally posted by elaw View Post
    You left out the part where they ask the pax to please push the flight attendant call button if they happen to see any thunderstorms, because there's no radar coverage over the ocean...
    Hi, I am "Julie", your virtual flight attendant. Please select an option from the list on the touchscreen if front of you. Invalid selection. You have chosen an item that is not available in your booking class. Please swipe your credit card. Please retrieve your dispensed item in the slot below. Please place your trash in the red slot marked REFUSE. Warning, your seat back will now return to it's full upright position."

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    • Originally posted by Evan View Post
      Corrected.
      Yep. That's better than my fix.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Evan View Post
        Hi, I am "Julie", your virtual flight attendant. Please select an option from the list on the touchscreen if front of you. Invalid selection. You have chosen an item that is not available in your booking class. Please swipe your credit card. Please retrieve your dispensed item in the slot below."
        I think that, as crazy as it sounds, it's easier to get rid of the pilots than of the FAs. The FAs need to ensure that the carry-on items are properly stored, that emergency exits are free from obstacles, prepare the cabin for take-off and landing, get a portable O2 and verify that everybody is on O2 mask in case of depressurization, fight eventual cabin fires, and are a key safety item in case of emergency evacuation.

        Those things are more complicated to automate than the flight control and airplane systems.

        NOTE: "easier" <> "easy"

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
          I don't think Gabe means it CAN'T be done...

          It's more like should it be done and do we really really want it done, would it introduce new problems, and would it be prohibitively expensive and if it would be better to start with new aircraft designs...
          Allowing remote access to flight controls is a realy bad idea!
          First you open the door to e-terrorism.
          Second a suicidal pilot could easily get to Vne before anyone takes over.

          Comment


          • Hi, this is "Rocky", your customer service representative. You have pushed the HELP button on the seatback in front of you. Please say your emergency at the tone. I'm sorry, I did not get that. Please repeat your emergency at the tone. I'm sorry, I still did not get that. Please be sure you are wearing your dentures and speak again clearly your emergency. I do apologize, we seem to be having a little problem. Are you wearing an oxygen mask? Please say yes or no. Sorry, I did not get that. Please choose from the list of emergencies on the screen in front of you. You have chosen OTHER. Let me connect you with a live respresentative who can further assist you... (hold music) (five minutes later) Hello this is "Robert", thank you for flying with ---, the sky is our limit®, please enter your --- rewards number or telephone number on the touchscreen in front of you. One moment while we verify that. I'm sorry, I'm not finding that. What is your home address? And for security reasons, what was the name of your first pet? Hmmm, no, is there another one you can think of? Yes! great! Now, Mr... Brown, what can help you with today? I see. Is the smoke dense or would you call it a light fog? Extend your arm above your head and tell me if you can count your fingers. Flames? Ok... Would you say the flames are more yellow or more blue? Great. Ok, Mr, Brown, I need you to find the EXTINGUISH button on your touchscreen. That's right, the red button. Please push that now. Great. Would you say the smoke is less dense. Well, let's give it a few more minutes. Still dense? Worse? Hmmm, let me get a supervisor. This may take a few minutes. If we get disconnected, just press the HELP button again. Is there anything else I can do for you today Mr. Brown? Well, sir, we do appreciate the inconvenience this might have caused you and hope you will continue to fly with --- airlines. A supervisor will be with you shortly. (click)

            (bong)Please take a minute to complete this customer satisfaction survey. This will help us to continually improve our service.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
              I think that, as crazy as it sounds, it's easier to get rid of the pilots than of the FAs. The FAs need to ensure that the carry-on items are properly stored, that emergency exits are free from obstacles, prepare the cabin for take-off and landing, get a portable O2 and verify that everybody is on O2 mask in case of depressurization, fight eventual cabin fires, and are a key safety item in case of emergency evacuation.
              "Attention, your assigned carry-on is not detected in the assigned overhead slot. Please place it there now."

              "Attention, your assigned overhead storage door is not latched. Please press on the latch until the green light appears. If your carryon does not allow it to latch, please press the CHECK BAG button on your touchscreen."

              "Attention, there has been a drop in cabin pressure. Please watch carefully as I show you how to place your oxygen mask over your face."

              "Attention, for your safety and protection, your seat restraint is now active. Please sit back and relax. The restraint will release when Capt - "FRANKLIN" - has determined that is is safe to move about the cabin. In an emergency, you may release the restraint by lifting on the red ESCAPE lever. Please note that an alarm will sound. Releasing the restraint in a non-emergency is a Federal offense punishable by a $500 fine.

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              • Hmmmmm... seems we have reached the "There is nothing left to see (and discuss) here, please move along"-phase...

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                • Automated flights were primarily designed for military actions, having in mind only one advantage: to keep military people out of direct danger of being downed and eventually captured by the enemies.

                  Than, a secondary advantage was noted: a drone could be on the air for days without the need of changing the crew. This is particularly interesting in survaillance missions.

                  I have never heard/read that authomated flights have better/safer records.

                  Using these facts as comparison, I don't see any advantages of authomated flights in civil aviation other than protecting the FC members from eventual fatal crash. Which by itself doesn't make any sense.

                  And on top of that, we create a possible new scenario of "hijacking a plane by hackers"

                  Comment


                  • The one advantage of pilots (of which this is one very rare exception) is that when things go very wrong their personal survival instinct kicks in. Whether they are alone or have 400 behind the cockpit door probably makes little difference.

                    A reason NOT to have parachutes and ejection seats is if they survive the chances are everybody else will too. Drone pilotage is OK for the norm but would you really want a pilot 500 miles away safe in a bunker looking at the world secondhand through 2D cameras - or as with US Air 1549, or BA38 - with pilots eyeballing the situation and easing and caressing their stricken steeds to, and maybe beyond, their technical envelope. Making fast strategic decisions ahead of those on the ground.

                    The work rate these pilots had to process in very few minutes/seconds probably needed all the adrenalin the incident could release into their brains. Would a remote pilot (would they have two working together on takeoff/approach?) do as well who knows they isn't going to die whatever they do?

                    Well the fact that they had difficulty emulating a non-catastrophic BA38 landing in the simulator says something. Life isn't perfect, pilots certainly aren't but right now I would risk a suicider against a regular pilot looking out to going home at the end of my next flight if both engines suddenly went AWOL.

                    [Is the cheque in the post yet IFALPA?]

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                      The problem with code-based solutions is that, even if overridden, they still take 30 secs to open the door.
                      Nope. It can take 5 seconds. How long does it take for the other pilot and/or FA to notice there is a problem and return to the cockpit (pilot)?

                      I heard pilots are used to sleep in the cockpit (one at a time, hopefully). Now what?

                      A rogue pilot can get into a fatal attitude and/or airspeed in that span of time or do immense damage to the controls. The second pilot must be able to re-enter the cockpit instantly. The FA must be trained to recall the capt and open the door at the first sign of trouble (such as any departure from flight level or automated flight at cruise).
                      What about ATC (or e.g. TCAS) -ordered FL change? This A320 was on AP the whole time.
                      I think that would mostly eliminate the pilot threat. But then it introduced the FA threat.
                      Actually, only the latter. However, I think the FA presence in the cockpit is beneficial, though it won't eliminate anything.

                      - Priority pilot emergency codes that cannot be overriden and work instantly
                      So the terrorists in the cabin can enter the cockpit
                      - no deadbolt (so auto-locks must have back-up battery and be fault-tolerant)
                      Less defense for the single pilot
                      - OR a deadbolt with a key provision on the outside. Pilot leaving the flight deck must wear this key
                      This should be the easy part (for terrorists).
                      - Use of emergency code squawks situation to ATC.
                      Who can do what exactly? Send fighter planes. Now it's the "elimination" part
                      But - yes, this could be beneficial, in some cases.

                      Comment


                      • The only sure way to prevent fatal air crash accidents is to stop flying. Why not stop driving and even just stop everything. Nobody does nothing and then nothing can go wrong.

                        Seriously though. This is the kind of incident you just can't prepare or plan for. Adding a FA in the cockpit when the pilot or FO have to leave for whatever reason is the best we can do to try to prevent this from happening again. Unless we wanna go back to basics and just have an actual key in the cockpit which the one leaving can bring with him, allowing him to manually open the door in an incident like this.

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                        • My niece is on faculty at Notre Dame in the psychology department. I sent her an email today, very succinct because she works and sleeps and little else.
                          *************************

                          Proposition 1: The nexus between mood disorders and personality disorders is ripe for catastrophy

                          Proposition 2: "Normal" is a concept which mainly serves to blind people to the reality around them.

                          Kardashians and Bieber are "normal" in today's world. We live in the charisma society. That's very hazardous.

                          Comment


                          • "Good afternoon. This is ............... with the Lizard Squad. You may remember me for my Christmas DDoS on the Sony Playstation network. I'm excited to inform you that I have remotely taken control of your flight. It was easy. I will be live Tweeting the action on ............ If you want to know why I am doing this I will need 150,000 RT's in the next 10 minutes. Enjoy your flight and remember, you can't arrest a lizard."

                            Last edited by brianw999; 2015-03-30, 05:03. Reason: Removed foul language.

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                            • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                              2. provide a satphone outside of the cockpit that CANNOT be shut down from inside the cockpit.
                              I asked this question before but I got no answer

                              Wouldn't there be a service/maintenance designated satellite handset located outside the cockpit?
                              I believe the 777 has one in the avionics bay for this purpose.
                              AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                              Originally posted by orangehuggy
                              the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                                That's not true in general.
                                Explain! A person loves life, but commits suicide? and people he decides to take with him are just collateral damage!

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