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  • Originally posted by Evan View Post
    Guess what TeeVee, the victims don't need a lawyer here, the lawyer needs the victims. I resent how they will find as many 'culpable' entities as possible to enhance the pot, dragging them all into a web of blame knowing they will probably get something quietly in settlement to avoid the publicity.

    Yet Boeing has no culpabilily here. They built a fantastic machine and all they ask is that the pilots remember to fly it. If the pilots have their hands and eyes where they belong, that's all the warning they should ever need or expect.

    I'm not against added measures of safety. I'm against ambulance chasers who victimize good innocent people for their own gain.
    perhaps you should keep studying a bit, only learn a bit of law before you run off at the mouth and prove your ignorance.

    suppose one of the paralyzed victims is a father/husband with three young kids. he was the breadwinner. as a result of "someone's" fuck-up, he will never work again. i guess in evan's world that's ok. no one should give a rat's ass about his and his family's loss.

    you ignorantly talk about the "blame game." damn right! because as we all know, there are almost NO acts of God that bring down airliners. most often it's a combination of pilot(s) error and something else. there's still talk about the a/t not functioning properly. i suppose if they end up finding the a/t at partial fault, boeing or the relevant manufacturer should just slide. two people dead, countless injured, some seriously, and an airline out tens of millions. yeah, your way is better.

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    • Everyone hates lawyers until they need one....

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      • Originally posted by Deadstick View Post
        Question BB. Do you prefer to hand fly the approach or let the auto land do it? I bet I know the answer.
        Flying large airplanes around on 8 plus hour legs is kind of boring. The only fun part is the take off and the landing. Most of us became pilots because we love to fly. Unless the weather is what we refer to as dog s**t, or it has been an extremely log day and we are tired,(Some of our legs are 15 - 16 hours) we will usually kick off the auto pilot about 5 miles out and hand fly the approach. As many of you here have pointed out landing a 152 is not really that much different than landing a 747. You are just going a little faster! and take up a lot more runway!!

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        • Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation


          Six of twelve flight attendants are still in hospital care and were not interviewed so far. The flight attendants at doors 1R and 2L were pinned by evacuation slides deploying into the cabin. 3 of four flight attendants at the rear doors were ejected from the aircraft together with their seats. None of the passenger seats were ejected from the aircraft. The six uninjured flight attendants were interviewed and reported that after the aircraft came to a stop, one of the flight attendants at 1L went to the cockpit and checked with flight crew whether an evacuation should be initiated, the flight crew instructed to not initiate the evacuation. The flight attendants at 2R saw fire outside the aircraft near seat row 10, consistent with the position of the right hand engine's position adjacent to the fuselage, and initiated the evacuation. 90 seconds after the aircraft came to a stop door 2L closely followed by 1L opened and the evacuation began. 120 seconds after the aircraft came to a stop the first emergency responders arrived on scene, about 150 seconds after the aircraft came to a stop the first fire agent was applied to the right hand side by emergency services. Emergency services entered the aircraft with a hose and attempted to fight the fire from the inside of the aircraft as well as assisted in the passenger evacuation. While trying to liberate the pinned flight attendants emergency services observed fire coming in from the window/fuselage.

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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          • Originally posted by georgel View Post
            1. Every accident like this one makes me think it is somewhat stupid to measure pilot experience in flying hours. I still remember my second flying instructor saying to me that one can learn more in a single hour of flight than in their hole (previous) career.

            2. I do think that the old-fashioned analogue IAS gauge-type indicators with a needle are more easily interpreted than a partial-scale moving stripe drawn on the border of a computer displays regardless of its "add-on"s (additional stripes or/and colours to stress certain speed values, etc.)
            Oh Man, you're my hero, especially because of your number 2. .
            Are you as old as me, or even 1 year older, ...eg. like Brian?
            I'm also an oldfashioned guy, I love the good old round instruments.

            I don't quite agree with your Nr 1. In this moment, I have a newspaper article in my hands, that says, one of the OZ-B772ER pilots - let it be leftseat or rightseat, it does not really matter - has an experience of exactly...
            43 - in words fourtythree flight hours - on the B772ER.

            Well. I use msfs since the year 2003 (fs9, and later fsx), and so, I've gathered, what would you guess, how many flight hours on my pmdg B744, fsx only?
            More than 90 since February 2013...

            It is indeed important, how fast you are with the knobs in your cockpit. And, imho, you get faster and faster the longer you are on the a/c that you love.
            The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
            The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
            And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
            This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

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            • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
              Flying large airplanes around on 8 plus hour legs is kind of boring. The only fun part is the take off and the landing. Most of us became pilots because we love to fly. Unless the weather is what we refer to as dog s**t, or it has been an extremely log day and we are tired,(Some of our legs are 15 - 16 hours) we will usually kick off the auto pilot about 5 miles out and hand fly the approach. As many of you here have pointed out landing a 152 is not really that much different than landing a 747. You are just going a little faster! and take up a lot more runway!!
              I fully understand. I recently flew right seat in my brother's Conquest 1 on a trip from Memphis to Cortez. It was seriously bad weather, but really all he did was monitor the autopilot and systems. He had to do a GPS approach to Cortez in icing and got really busy. We got down to find out the brakes had failed but he managed it well with reverse thrust. That kind of flying is so over my head, but I learned and spent most of my time in gliders (along with a very low time SEL). The five hours we spent enroute to Cortez was only interesting in watching the really nasty weather below us.

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              • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                Autoland was first introduced in 1968 on the Sud Aviation Caravelle followed in 1972 by the Hawker Siddeley type 121 Trident. Automatic landings are a regular occurrence every day at many airports around the world with some airlines requiring autoland to be used regularly in good VFR weather to ensure systems effectiveness for the day when the feature is REALLY needed.
                It may be premature, but from what I've read so far, it seems to me the humans were the biggest danger in the scenario. Of course, there could be something faulty in the plane. If so, I just hope NTSB is blunt in revealing it.

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                • Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
                  I have a newspaper article in my hands, that says, one of the OZ-B772ER pilots - let it be leftseat or rightseat, it does not really matter - has an experience of exactly...
                  43 - in words fourtythree flight hours - on the B772ER.
                  Not only that, it was also his very first landing in SFO in the 777. Can you imagine that?

                  Of course, there is another side of the coin:

                  The captain under supervision, 9700 hours total flying experience with 5000 hours in command, type ratings for B737, B747 and A320 having been ground instructor and sim instructor as well captain on A320s from 2005 to 2013, had flown 10 legs for a total of 35 hours on the Boeing 777-200 so far and was about half way through his supervision, and had 29 landings into San Francisco on other aircraft types before. (Source: AvHerald.com)

                  Not to mention that every single pilot had at a time 43 hours of experience in every airplane type where he logged more than 43 hours. And I got my pilot licence with 43 hours total (44 with the check ride).

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                    Autoland was first introduced in 1968 on the Sud Aviation Caravelle followed in 1972 by the Hawker Siddeley type 121 Trident. Automatic landings are a regular occurrence every day at many airports around the world with some airlines requiring autoland to be used regularly in good VFR weather to ensure systems effectiveness for the day when the feature is REALLY needed.
                    Yes. I handle it that way. Good thing that you're still around, with how many jp "flight hours"? There were approx 6000 posts the last time I've looked at your counter? And experience counts, we know that.

                    But, in that newspaper that I've just quoted, they wrote about Mrs Hersman (chief executive officer of the NTSB), she'd sayd "Don't expect proven results within the next 4 or 7 days." Yes, I know. I've been here since AF 447 and longer.

                    And Gabriel, no, I can't imagine that. I don't have a logbook about my msfs landings on SF Bay Intl, but this airport is at least among my top three US airports.
                    1. Newark
                    2. O'Hare
                    3. SF Bay Intl
                    ...
                    The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                    The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                    And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                    This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                    Comment


                    • With the risk of being chastised once again, (Not to worry I have thick skin and can take it) let me point out a couple of things in my opinion.

                      Although an airplane is often referred to as “she” it is after all a machine and has no emotions or feelings. Airplanes know only seven things when landing or taking off.

                      How much does it weigh, wind, barometric pressure, hot, cold, high altitude or sea level. The airplane has no idea where it is, are there mountains around? water underneath it?

                      Yes, some airports are more challenging than others because of terrain, sloped runways etc. but all in all it really doesn’t matter.
                      As Gabreil has pointed out, every pilot at one time has only a few hours in type when they first get on a new aircraft.

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                      • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                        [...]
                        every pilot at one time has only a few hours in type when they first get on a new aircraft.
                        Yes. A pilot begins with a new a/c, i.e. he has - on his maiden flight - zero flight hours of experience, on the real thing.
                        But, again I'm only speaking for myself, a good pilot should only apply for a seat in the cockpit, if the a/c that he or she is applyin for is not completely unknown.
                        Was he or she passenger yet on that precise type?
                        What do you know about a B772ER?
                        - If I had to answer, not very much.

                        And sorry Brian, I've just been so insane to cut of 2,500 of your posts (in #354), ... indeed almost 9,000? So who is crazy of the two of us?

                        PS: What still strikes me, although "The Great Survival" is more than 24 hours ago, I still hold that newspaper in my hands, and they say, the final app spd was not more than 160 kilometres per hour (86,4 kias), in a triple7!!!
                        The pnf should BEAT the pf, if he'd ever try something below 130 kias in a (heavy) jet.

                        And what, if the OZ-B772ER was on app too fast? Well, I love my B744 fsx for her fmc messages. "vref app not selected". But that, of course, can't result in a violent loss of airspeed, only to reach the rwy without g/a.
                        One go-around procedure is always (!) part of the fuel planning.

                        And what, if this OZ-B772ER pf is an ex OZ-B744 pilot with 9,000 flight hours on the 747?!
                        Two engines vs four, one passenger deck vs two, in case of a doubt, I don't wanna be the one who is part of "downsizing". Because a 777 is a completely different aircraft.

                        Imho, a 777 can't be flown by a 747 pilot, if the second pilot in the cockpit isn't a 777 instructor.
                        Last edited by LH-B744; 2013-07-11, 02:38. Reason: #354 is nothing, let us reach #500.
                        The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                        The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                        And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                        This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                        Comment


                        • And since we are counting posts, what would be better than celebrate post 3K with a totally nonsense and off-topic comment like this?

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                          • Is there any point when too much experience in the cockpit is counterproductive? Do too many eyes lead to assumptions about who is watching things? I think sometimes a single person can maintain better focus than a group. I was remembering Eastern Airlines Flight 1401 that crashed in the Everglades while a cockpit full of skilled individuals focused on a burnt out indicator light. Do human factors studies say anything about some sort of "crowd effect" when there's a group and an emergency?

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                            • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                              Good riddance.

                              From your record you posted earlier in this thread, it seems clear that you are highly experienced (i.e. old), highly senile and probably have ED.
                              OMG! I love it!

                              The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Black Ram View Post
                                Oh, please!

                                ITS is the kind of person from whom you learn nothing.
                                He is anti-composites, unless it is Boeing composites we are talking about.
                                He made "highly-technical analysis", indicating tailfin separation caused AF447, days after the crash.
                                He had you scared to board a "scarebus" for 2 years.
                                Fear-mongering and hate for the foreign competition....unless you are one of those "patriotic" Americans and want to go that way, because it makes you feel proud.
                                I'm really disappointed you haven't learned a thing. Maybe because you only listen to ITS?
                                I think you may be missing the point with ITS. Hard to explain, but it would only spoil it if I could.

                                If you like your education handed to you on a plate, you'll never know the greatest truth about the real adventure of flight or what it takes to earn that kind of knowledge.

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