How to Lose your Best Customers. or, F&$% Off AA

[TeeVee]

like every airline, AA has its issues. none are perfect or even close to it. for every horror story there are ten good ones. and amazingly, vice versa.

i've been a loyal aa customer for over 20 years. over 1,000,000 flight miles with them. they have gotten so f*$%n crazy with their fees though it makes me sick. $497 to change the time on a return flight of a $490 round trip ticket? really?! what other industry could get away with such hideous bullshit?

$200 change fee for domestic flights? $300 for international? industry leading most expensive bullshit.

and AA is not alone. all the other majors charge similar "fees." and some of the little bastards are catching up.

screw the free market. it's time to RE-regulate these assholes!

[3WE]

...change fee...

...screw the free market. it's time to RE-regulate these assholes!

Change fees are a big screw-over...for the history of flying until pretty recently- you could do the standby thing on the day you were supposed to fly totaly free...totally.

...and to apply simple logic- the seat is going with or without you- it doesn't hurt the airine to put your butt in it...and then, there's a very slight chance they get to sell the seat you were sitting in...win win, right?

And make no mistake, there isn't a change discount when THEY change your flight times.

It's pretty clear there's no real competition, airline stocks are up, people are flying, and the little weasels in their cubicals looking at LEAN schemes and tradeoffs...apparently, there's $$ to be made screwing you over. And, unfortunately, they apparently do not frequent jetphotos.net/forums.

And what hurts more- you are being screwed over in a premeditated, systematic manner.

A few years ago, I looked in to going home a day early....I think it was a $1,500 change fee AND a more expensive ticket. Needless to say, I spent another night in paradise along with my original plans.

Regulate the free market???...ouch, that hurts...but I hear you.

You could also fly Southwest- although let's be totally clear...their fee's and change policies are creeping along with the other airlines...and their fares are often a few bucks more (gotta pay for the bag handlers some way, you know).

[Foxtrot]

^I'm pretty sure Southwest still lets you change your reservation and honours the ticket for upto one year, and when the time comes to re-book the trip you just pay the fare difference if the new fare is higher thn the one you booked. If it's the same, you pay nothing. That's what I had to do once recently and that's how it worked back then.

[TeeVee]

yes. SWA is one of the only, if THE only US airline that doesn't bend you over for changing your flight. problem is, for my travel needs--biz and pleasure--they are super inconvenient if not altogether impossible.

[B757300]

I wish I had someone other than American or United to fly on, at least if I want to fly out of my local airport. I despise United and they're much more expensive if I fly out of here so I have to fly with AA.

To fly on anyone else, I have to drive Houston, Austin, or Dallas.

I have to up coming trips on American in May. Going to Atlanta (Peachtree City actually) on the 9th and coming back on the 11th. The next Friday I'm going to Dayton (USAF Museum, Yeah!) and flying back on Monday. Both tickets are actually cheaper than flying out of Austin or Houston. Atlanta was $268 and Dayton was $258.

They changed my flight times a few weeks ago and gave me the sh*ttiest times. I called and pretty much went nuclear. They changed the flight times to ones I selected without charging me, thankfully. I did not want to arrive in Atlanta and Dayton at 5:00PM on a Friday afternoon, nor did I want to arrive back in College Station at close to 10:00pm.

Sadly, I don't think we'll ever get another carrier, even Southwest. AA and UA barely fly here to begin with, and some days UA has 1 flight a day to and from Houston. Most people fly into/from Houston and Austin.

[ConcordeBoy]

it's time to RE-regulate these assholes!

Wait, let me make sure I have this straight:
You're whining about fees (i.e., your cost of travel), yet pining for re-regulation?

Ummm, you must not remember, or be old enough to recall, the cost of flying from that era.

Yeah, if the cost of a JFK-LAX transcon relative to median income were the same today as it was in 1975, then the average fare would be over $2,000 for coach!

If air tickets had the same inflation as milk, the cost on that same ticket would be nearly $3,000 for coach. (Source: Gordon Bethune's CNBC interview, 2010)

Soooo, yeah, bad call. Airlines would have no need for fees then. And the overwhelming majority of Americans would not have the means to fly.

[3WE]

...Soooo, yeah, bad call...

Dismissive comments are a hot button with me.

A few short years ago there were no change fees- whatsoever. Now they are huge and no reflection whatsoever of what it costs.

I like to compare it to a resturaunt- can I have cheddar cheese on my burrito? Sure, if you pay a $20.00 change fee (on a $10 burrito).

The fees go against pretty much all rules of trying to lift a finger to help your customers instead of sticking it to them.

Like I said earlier- the empty seat is flying, the stanby-passenger could be sitting in it and cost the carrier nothing.

...and the two reasons the airines charge this- 1) a lack of competition, 2) an ironic pervesion of competition that we blindly grab the lowest fare.

...Ok, a third reason- they just don't give a crap about helping the customers, instead, a decision was made to systematically stick them with really big fees.

Does Tee Vee vigorously over-state his case?...yeah, but that doesn't mean it's not a really crappy, greedy policy and they sure as hell don't pay the passengers a change fee when they change your travel times.

I understand- re regulation is a tough call and hard to support, but the current situation really does stink.

[3WE]

yes. SWA is one of the only, if THE only US airline that doesn't bend you over for changing your flight. problem is, for my travel needs--biz and pleasure--they are super inconvenient if not altogether impossible.

...in other words, there's a lack of competition in the industry as SWA (or someone with similar policies) isn't a reasonable option for your location.

[ConcordeBoy]

Dismissive comments are a hot button with me.

Awesome! Then remind me to do more of it, if that's what finally breathes some life into this semi-dead forum

Now they are huge

I'd disagree. So now, which of us is "right," and based on what comparative metric?
...see where I'm going with this?

and no reflection whatsoever of what it costs.

1) Which you base on _____?
2) And that aside, who ever even said they were supposed to be? There's no requirement that they only charge a fee based on cost. It's based on what the market will pay, as has been demonstrated.

I like to compare it to a resturaunt

Which is rather anecdotal...

can I have cheddar cheese on my burrito? Sure, if you pay a $20.00 change fee (on a $10 burrito).

What ancillary charge has over a 100% markup over base cost, or anything remotely near such a margin?

Better yet, how would you know what base cost (notice I didn't say "price" in either case) even is?

The fees go against pretty much all rules

Whose rules?

the empty seat is flying, the stanby-passenger could be sitting in it and cost the carrier nothing.

The carriers did the math, and figured out that permissive standby allowances actually cost them more than it retained.

What data are you using that shows otherwise?

a lack of competition

Which (again) you base on ____?

You seem to be forgetting that overall unbundling occurred when there were significantly more airlines than they are now

2) an ironic pervesion of competition that we blindly grab the lowest fare.

And who's to blame for that? Not the airlines.

Which is why it's only a matter of time before it spreads even further.

VERY few airlines in VERY few niches, worldwide, can effectively attract a sufficient market in order to compete on anything else other than price. Even the almighty "Asian" carriers are figuring that out as each day passes.

a decision was made to systematically stick them with really big fees.

And do you know why? Because customers showed them, via actions (which speak far louder than words) that they were fine with that.

Richard Anderson, then the new CEO of Delta still in his first year, said it best: We watched them (American) closely, and saw no appreciable defection in customers, so we had to consider all options. It'd be irresponsible to our shareholders not to.

United, Northwest, Continental, Alaska, SkyBus, Spirit, Frontier, Midwest, JetBlue, Airtran, etc all came to the same independent conclusion.

and they sure as hell don't pay the passengers a change fee when they change your travel times.

Well, since you like to bring up businesses that have nothing to do with the topic/model at hand... tell me, what happens when you attempt to change a Dr.'s appointment at the last minute? Gotta pay.

Do they offer you the same courtesy when they change your appointment?

but the current situation really does stink.

Perhaps, but ya see, there's a surefire way to get everyyyyyyything you want from the carriers, with no unbundled fees, and essentially no real effort.

Would you like to know what it is?

.....................PAY FOR IT!

They will more than happily give you whatever you want, let you change whatever you want, let you standby whenever you want-- if you buy the fare class specifically dedicated for such.

Airlines are businesses, not charities, and their primary objective is to maximize value for their shareholders; not make you feel like a desert oil sheik.

If you choose to pay for bottom-barrel fares, then you "deserve" NOTHING more than to get from point A to point B in one piece and as close to on-time as possible. And that's what you're getting.

[AA 1818]

If you are an AAdvantage member (especially a high ranking one), most of these fees as well as most of the aggravation of dealing with 'regular' 'customer service', as both are privileges (either expressed or not) of membership.

I am not in complete agreement with ConcordeBoy - but there is a logic to his statement. If you are not absolutely sure that your travel is going to happen, do not buy a non-refundable, set-date ticket. You have your choice - that lower cost ticket comes with strings.

[ConcordeBoy]

...in other words, there's a lack of competition in the industry as SWA (or someone with similar policies) isn't a reasonable option for your location.

Considering that his location says Miami, the US airport with more competing airlines than any other.... we can pretty safely say that "lack of competition" isn't the reason there.

[3WE]

The carriers did the math, and figured out that permissive standby allowances actually cost them more than it retained.

Let me see if I have this right.

For the whole history of aviation until about five years ago, they never did the math to check on the cost of standby?

Or are you saying that until five years ago, it didn't cost much, but now it costs $500 (or $250 since you cite 100% mark ups) to move someone's name in a database from one flight to another?

Did customer service agents get a giant ass raise making that database typing that much more expensive, or is the the cost of paper and inkjet cartridges for a new boarding pass?

[ConcordeBoy]

For the whole history of aviation until about five years ago, they never did the math to check on the cost of standby?

Hmmm.

1) Are you assuming that just because they didn't ENACT it at any specific time, that they therefore weren't studying it?

2) Are you assuming that the results of any such studies would be the same then; as they would've been, say, a half decade for that? A decade? Two decades? Three decades?

....as usual, I would then ask: Based on what?

Or are you saying that until five years ago, it didn't cost much, but now it costs $500 (or $250 since you cite 100% mark ups) to move someone's name in a database from one flight to another?

See points 1 and 2 above.

Did customer service agents get a giant ass raise making that database typing that much more expensive, or is the the cost of paper and inkjet cartridges for a new boarding pass?

Orrrrrrr, did customers show that they were stupid enough to put up with it, en masse, thus making it both easier and more profitable for the carriers?

...I know which one is my pick.

[3WE]

Orrrrrrr, did customers show that they were stupid enough to put up with it, en masse, thus making it both easier and more profitable for the carriers?

Your attempt to side step my question failed. Based on what, you ask? Based on 5 years ago you could fly standby for free versus $500 now.

You are very strong in your defense of them following all sorts of fundamental economic principles related to income versus expenses for standby passengers.

Now, as to your statement above (one particular economic principle)...Yes, I concur.

[Vnav]

3WE,

The reason 'free standby' has gone away is that consumers learned to game the system.....just as they've learned to work the system for things like voluntary denied boarding, weekend stays, hidden city ticketing, bereavement fares, mileage runs, etc.

As you know, there are many different 'Fare codes' for seats onboard the plane (F/Y/J/K/S/L/U/T.....etc). Let's say that on the flight you really want, all the cheap discount fare buckets are already sold out. But on the Redeye flight, there are plenty of discount fares. People learned to just buy the ticket on the cheap flight they didn't want and just standby on the expensive flight they really wanted.....and in the days of yore with 60% load factors, they'd get on every time. And it's unlikely that the airline could then sell the old seat in time.

Trust me, as fast as airlines come up with new annoying rules, the consumer finds a way around them. There are websites dedicated to showing you how to work the system.

If your travel habits require lots of flexibility, don't buy the non-refundable fares.....every airline sells refundable tickets. Furthermore, most airlines also waive change fees for their upper tier frequent fliers. Lastly, there's always travel insurance....or you can always join the airlines and get all the free standby travel you could want (but trust me, in the current 80-90% load era, it's not as good a deal as it sounds)