Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pilots need to use the autopilot/FMS more!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by MCM View Post
    It also makes it easy to spot where the airport in a city is - you look for the large black hole where there aren't any bright lights .
    Unfortunately, in the not so populated area around Branson International you have a black hole surrounded by blackness.

    That doesn't excuse what happened, but it certainly enabled it.

    (Nor does it mean the lights must be turned up)
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

    Comment


    • #62
      Another point with he runway lights is that they are directional, with most of the luminous energy emitted in the direction of the runway, so you only see them when you are relatively aligned with it. If you approach from the side, like in a long base leg, you don't see them at all until you are really close.

      I remember in a flight bound for Ezeiza in the dusk that we were in the base leg for a long final and I was looking at the airport through my little window and thinking "why aren't the lights on yet? It's quite dark already" As we started the turn to final the lights became visible.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

      Comment


      • #63
        So even a pilot who has never landed at a specific airport should be expected to be 100 percent in this case? I suppose in busy areas, with limits on expansion for the large airports, other airports popup. Since planes don't turn on a dime, how big a navigation error would take you to an alternative airport? I still remember the flight that flew 180 miles beyond MSP as the flight crew were using laptops to schedule vacation.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
          So even a pilot who has never landed at a specific airport should be expected to be 100 percent in this case?....
          Ummm, yes....100%.....or really really really really really really damn close to 100%. 99.999999999999999999999999999999%

          The world is full of airports a few miles apart with aligned runways...as is clearly evidenced since this happens from time to time.

          If pilots operated only visually, maybe it might be a bit too much to expect "perfection" from a first-timer.

          But this is a "known problem" so there's a bunch of SOP's (I'm going to avoid the word "requirement") that you tune the ILS signal, or tune a VOR or NDB or....

          ....the pink line on the modern GPS/RNAV/computerized/moving map system that Tee Vee ranted about.

          Close-by, aligned runways is a visual challenge, but these incidents are generally a bad human failure to double check things with the robust navigation systems.

          The vast majority of the time, there's a pretty decent approach to guide you right to the runway- and maybe in this computer age there needs to ALWAYS be an R-Nav and/or GPS approach which contains distance and/or vertical guidance to address nearby somewhat aligned airports and a rule that you always "tune and follow" this approach???
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

          Comment


          • #65
            I don't agree, pilots shall perform a minimum amount of take-off and landings manually along their monthly duty so they keep their mind fresh and well trained just in case computers fail or automation is not working.

            You never know when something is going to fail.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by jarod View Post
              I don't agree, pilots shall perform a minimum amount of take-off and landings manually along their monthly duty so they keep their mind fresh and well trained just in case computers fail or automation is not working.

              You never know when something is going to fail.
              And you don't agree with what?
              That you are cross-checking your visual references with a VOR, DME, ILS or RNAV approach depicted on your nav screen doesn't mean that you are not had-flying.

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by jarod View Post
                I don't agree, pilots shall perform a minimum amount of take-off and landings manually along their monthly duty so they keep their mind fresh and well trained just in case computers fail or automation is not working.

                You never know when something is going to fail.
                Indeed...Pilots should be required to land at five airports a month for which they are not familair and which have a nearby, aligned runway and use no electronic guidance...and do it at night too.

                Too much reliance on automatic stuff!
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                  Indeed...Pilots should be required to land at five airports a month for which they are not familair and which have a nearby, aligned runway and use no electronic guidance...and do it at night too.

                  Too much reliance on automatic stuff!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    OK, again, tell me how pilots know where they are in space. And doesn't TOGA apply to this, too? My imagination tells me the guys go into a descent to the runway, then FMS says the coordinates are wrong, and they announce a TOGA so they can reorient and get their plane on the right coordinates. Of course, this is just a passenger's imagination of what modern planes would do.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
                      And doesn't TOGA apply to this, too?
                      No.

                      TOGA is a "last second", "high performance" maneuver.

                      We want the pilots to figure out much earlier that they are aiming towards the wrong runway.
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X