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  • Originally posted by Dispatch Dog View Post
    I think you may be missing the point with ITS. Hard to explain, but it would only spoil it if I could.

    If you like your education handed to you on a plate, you'll never know the greatest truth about the real adventure of flight or what it takes to earn that kind of knowledge.
    I guess I am missing the point, but then again I don't know that much about ITS. I can only comment on his contribution to the first 447 forum. He was unfriendly, cynical, fear-mongering, and some people were taking him seriously. But I don't see how he helped others with their fear for flying, or how he helped advance air safety. Or how he contributed to some of the discussions with 100% pure BS.
    I guess he also has a real world, where he actually flies some kind of airplane, knows the procedures, remembers his first flight, etc. But there are many people like that and it certainly doesn't turn him into The Oracle, or a "super genius pilot" or whatever he called himself.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      Not trying to put you down (to much), but as a MSFS pilot only, you really have no idea what you are talking about here.

      No I have no experience in the 777, but I have flown all models of the 747 including the 747-8 which is very similar to the 777 cockpit setup.

      The other pilot in the right seat (even though it was his first as an instructor) did have quite a lot of time on type.
      Oh Bobby, why did you hide so often since 2009?

      I don't look for competition, as there is none for me. You can read? Then read my signature, and read the word "amateur".

      So, don't mess with me. Better mess with AJ!
      LOL.
      The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
      The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
      And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
      This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
        Is everybody thinking "If there was something wrong, someone else would be doing something"
        Intriguing. Might as well be the case with some of those crews

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
          small adjustments to training...

          Like a 5 question quiz in the simulator right after completing the V1 engine cut and single engine approach to minimums:

          1. What can happen when you pull up really hard and relentlessly (going slow helps too).

          1a. Are there times when an Airbus will take your control input (of pulling up hard) and do EXACTLY what you ask, as opposed to INTERPRETING what it THINKS you ask.

          2. Do you scan your six basic 'instruments' frequently- ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE GOING SLOWER AND CLOSE TO THE GROUND!!!!!!!!!? (I know it's a single panel now, but the data's all there in the same basic positions)

          3. If the president of your country (or some uber powerful CEO) asks you to shoot an approach and go below minimums, what will you do?

          4. Do you hand fly whenver it's reasonable to and there's skills to be brushed up?

          5. What will you do to be sure that you don't pull a Comair, Pinnacle, Colgan, AirFrance and Asiana eye-rolling, how in the hell did they do that type of crash?

          5 additional minutes to flight training and they're done! (Of course this still will not solve the extremely rare simultaneous big brain fart.)
          The start of a global air training revolution. Can't come fast enough.

          Comment


          • Just a "pisser" of a question?

            Please don't smack me too hard for this one, but if they, for lack of power while the engines spooled up, would they have had a pigs prayer, even the slightest chance, that if they went gear up, they may have cleaned it up enough to stretch the glide that few extra yards and cleared the seawall?

            I know there is no true "correct" action one can take when you are that far behind the airplane and belly in gear up has it's problems too but it does sound like it may have been a bit better than no gear and no tail and that final slam dunk into the tarmac.
            Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
              my point was simply that perhaps their training (which is ongoing forever!) does not include the requirement that they account for an a/t that isn't doing what they think it should.

              as my pilot friend said, since HAL is doing the technical flying, the pilot's job becomes supervising HAL. clearly these turkeys did not do that.
              Also very true. They probably didn't think they were supposed to supervise, or didn't do so because it wasn't clear who should be doing what (bad CRM), complicated by the training/instructing situation they had for landing.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                [...]

                I'm tiring of the allegations that training is "so wrong".

                You are supposed to @!#%@# learn this in the first five hours of your flight training!!!!!!!!!!!

                Instead, I think we need some very small adjustments to training...

                Like a 5 question quiz in the simulator right after completing the V1 engine cut and single engine approach to minimums:

                1. What can happen when you pull up really hard and relentlessly (going slow helps too).

                1a. Are there times when an Airbus will take your control input (of pulling up hard) and do EXACTLY what you ask, as opposed to INTERPRETING what it THINKS you ask.

                2. Do you scan your six basic 'instruments' frequently- ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE GOING SLOWER AND CLOSE TO THE GROUND!!!!!!!!!? (I know it's a single panel now, but the data's all there in the same basic positions)

                3. If the president of your country (or some uber powerful CEO) asks you to shoot an approach and go below minimums, what will you do?

                4. Do you hand fly whenver it's reasonable to and there's skills to be brushed up?

                5. What will you do to be sure that you don't pull a Comair, Pinnacle, Colgan, AirFrance and Asiana eye-rolling, how in the hell did they do that type of crash?

                5 additional minutes to flight training and they're done! (Of course this still will not solve the extremely rare simultaneous big brain fart.)
                Well. I should merely concentrate on jp members that really have to say something. So, I like to try your quiz.

                1 stall and/or uncontrollable loss of airspeed
                1a That's not my topic, better ask an Airbus enthusiast
                2 Yes you can. And there are not only visual indications...
                3 In my case that can only happen if your passenger is the Frau Bundeskanzler. And, after all what I know about her, she's not a pilot. I hope that she trusts her pilots.
                4 Much too seldom. And I have a question for 747 instructor BoeingBobby, how many of your landings are handmade? 100%, or less?
                5 You can never have too much training.
                The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                Comment


                • Regarding the passenger run over, I suppose that when you are approaching an aircraft that is starting to burn and amid a field of debris (that one shot really is amazing how much "flotsam and jetsam" there was, toss in shifting smoke and all of the the other factors that will distract and obscure, I suppose the military's term "fog of war" comes to mind, and "There But For Fortune Go You or I" as the Phil Ochs song goes, I have to feel for the driver of the rig to. That poor "SOB" must be having a hell of a time sleeping.

                  I have only done a few "live fire" drills in the military as #2 hose man but even with the protection of a cab, the smoke and confusion. It's sad but understandable.
                  Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                    Please don't smack me too hard for this one, but if they, for lack of power while the engines spooled up, would they have had a pigs prayer, even the slightest chance, that if they went gear up, they may have cleaned it up enough to stretch the glide that few extra yards and cleared the seawall?

                    I know there is no true "correct" action one can take when you are that far behind the airplane and belly in gear up has it's problems too but it does sound like it may have been a bit better than no gear and no tail and that final slam dunk into the tarmac.
                    I seriously doubt it for a number of reasons (that number being 2)

                    First, they added power 1.5 seconds before impact. I don't think that all the cleaning and honing that you can do would have been enough this late.

                    Second, there is one thing that raising the gear does before reducing the drag, and that is increasing the drag. Because all the doors that open.

                    Can I smack you hard now?

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • Gabe, yep, but not too hard. It was indeed too far gone at that point.

                      But I had to ask.
                      Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                        I seriously doubt it for a number of reasons (that number being 2)

                        First, they added power 1.5 seconds before impact. I don't thing that all the cleaning and honing that you can do would have been enough this late.

                        Seconds, there is one thing that raising the gear does before reducing the drag, and that is increasing the drag. Because all the doors that open.

                        Can I smack you hard now?

                        ummmm, are you sure the doors are closed when the gear is down?

                        not that i think it would've helped anyway...too little, too late.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                          ummmm, are you sure the doors are closed when the gear is down?
                          Quite.

                          Not all of them, of course. The gear must protude from the wing and fuselage through some hole.

                          But compare these two images.




                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • NTSB statement on erroneous confirmation of crew names



                            July 12
                            The National Transportation Safety Board apologizes for inaccurate and offensive names that were mistakenly confirmed as those of the pilots of Asiana flight 214, which crashed at San Francisco International Airport on July 6.
                            Earlier today, in response to an inquiry from a media outlet, a summer intern acted outside the scope of his authority when he erroneously confirmed the names of the flight crew on the aircraft.
                            The NTSB does not release or confirm the names of crewmembers or people involved in transportation accidents to the media. We work hard to ensure that only appropriate factual information regarding an investigation is released and deeply regret today's incident.
                            Appropriate actions will be taken to ensure that such a serious error is not repeated.
                            I wonder if that means they (the TV station) gave the names, asked for confirmation and he confirmed? Or if they asked for the names and he provided those?

                            You'd have to be pretty dense to run with those names regardless of who "confirmed" them.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              Quite.

                              Not all of them, of course. The gear must protude from the wing and fuselage through some hole.

                              But compare these two images.
                              Gabriel, what do you think, should we open a 35+ club?
                              ...Somewhere in the middle of SAEZ and EDDL.

                              Btw, is that a Kuwaiti B777, that is on your upper most picture?
                              The 2nd one is one of our most frequently visitors here, the EK-B773ER.

                              But this isn't the detail that you want us to know, right?
                              The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                              The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                              And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                              This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
                                Gabriel, what do you think, should we open a 35+ club?
                                ...Somewhere in the middle of SAEZ and EDDL.
                                Something closer to SAWE maybe?

                                Btw, is that a Kuwaiti B777, that is on your upper most picture?
                                I have no idea but, now that you mention, it does seem to have "Kuait Airlines" written just there on the side of the fuselage.

                                The 2nd one is one of our most frequently visitors here, the EK-B773ER.

                                But this isn't the detail that you want us to know, right?
                                No, but these airlines have good catering and in-flight entertainment.
                                Or so they say.

                                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                                Comment

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