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Air Canada flight 8481

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  • Air Canada flight 8481

    Diverted, gear collapse, four injured. Q400 @ Edmonton.
    moving quickly in air

  • #2
    There's some palour talk on avherald suggesting that this happens quite a bit and is indicative of poor design on the Dash-8/Q400. Since there have been no related groundings I take this is just parlour talk.

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    • #3
      There have been three other incidents of Dash 8 landing gear collapses with SAS in 2007 and 2008 so much so that SAS grounded their entire fleet at the time. Any problems seem to have been glossed over since then.
      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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      • #4
        SAS not only grounded their fleet, they got rid of it in its entirety.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
          There have been three other incidents of Dash 8 landing gear collapses with SAS in 2007 and 2008 so much so that SAS grounded their entire fleet at the time. Any problems seem to have been glossed over since then.
          Originally posted by HalcyonDays View Post
          SAS not only grounded their fleet, they got rid of it in its entirety.
          There was quite a row between SAS and Bombardier at that time, if I recall correctly. However, again if I recall correctly, SAS was the only carrier who had experienced gear collapsing in the Q400 in the 2000's.
          Have there been any other accidents/incidents of this nature?

          ...okay - should have done some of my own reading before posting...

          Last edited by Peter Kesternich; 2014-11-08, 12:29.

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          • #6
            holy shit. too many incidents/accidents for a plane with so few units in operation. scary shit.

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            • #7
              I wouldn't board one, and yes most of these landings don't result in more than a hull loss but I just don't need that kind of drama in my life.
              Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                There have been three other incidents of Dash 8 landing gear collapses with SAS in 2007 and 2008 so much so that SAS grounded their entire fleet at the time. Any problems seem to have been glossed over since then.
                Not all are related to main gear collapse. Some are failure to retract or failure to deploy. Some are nose gear related. This seems to be a main gear downlock failure, of which there have been a few.

                From what I can tell, past incidents have been related to poor maintenance and inspections. The AD following the 2008 Scandanavian incident only called for more diligent inspections. There have been problems with actuator nut corrosion, uplock wear and improperly fitted grease nipples that become dislodged and jam the downlock mechanism.

                The question is: what design weaknesses may be contributing this heightened inspection and maintenance? In any case, it doesn't seem to me to be so hard to fix. Corrosion resistant hardware, more wear-resistant components, threaded grease fittings instead on press-on ones... how hard can this be?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                  holy shit. too many incidents/accidents for a plane with so few units in operation. scary shit.
                  Not all of these incidents/accidents relate to the Dash 8 Q400, but involve the whole Dash 8 family. With over 1100 units in operation, I wouldn't exactly call that "few".

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Evan View Post
                    (...)

                    From what I can tell, past incidents have been related to poor maintenance and inspections. The AD following the 2008 Scandanavian incident only called for more diligent inspections. There have been problems with actuator nut corrosion, uplock wear and improperly fitted grease nipples that become dislodged and jam the downlock mechanism.

                    (...)
                    Again, if I recall correctly, during the 2000's incident streak with SAS, the thought among observers of the scene (like us here) was that the problem was less with Bombardier and more with SAS (which was going through an especially difficult phase at that time).

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                    • #11
                      One factor to bear in mind here, and putting aside maintenance or lack of it for now, is the number of gear cycles per day compared to larger, longer range aircraft.
                      The Dash 8 is essentially a commuter short range aircraft and may well have around a dozen gear cyles per day compared to a much lower number with larger long haul aircraft. A relatively new aircraft is going to wear out gear parts much quicker.
                      And no....I wouldn't fly in one for all the tea in China !
                      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                        One factor to bear in mind here, and putting aside maintenance or lack of it for now, is the number of gear cycles per day compared to larger, longer range aircraft.
                        The Dash 8 is essentially a commuter short range aircraft and may well have around a dozen gear cyles per day compared to a much lower number with larger long haul aircraft. A relatively new aircraft is going to wear out gear parts much quicker.
                        And no....I wouldn't fly in one for all the tea in China !
                        Do you really think a Dash 8 flies more daily cycles than a 737? T-props generally fly shorter legs or lower demand routes to smaller airports but I think with about the same frequency and time aloft as low-cost regionals like Riotair.

                        And what ever happened to "any landing you walk away from"?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Evan View Post
                          what ever happened to "any landing you walk away from"?
                          This qualifies as a good but not perfect landing:

                          Good landing: everybody walks away.
                          Perfect landing: Good landing + the airplane can be re-used without maintenance intervention.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Evan View Post
                            Do you really think a Dash 8 flies more daily cycles than a 737? T-props generally fly shorter legs or lower demand routes to smaller airports but I think with about the same frequency and time aloft as low-cost regionals like Riotair.

                            And what ever happened to "any landing you walk away from"?
                            No, I don't think that.....and I wasnt comparing them to short haul, low cost regionals. I was comparing them to longer haul heavies.
                            I assume you are referring to Ryanair when you refer to "Riotair". LOL. Like it ! I'll have to use that one.
                            Ryanair have a very young fleet and and excellent maintenance record and I'll wager that their 737 fleet flies longer and fewer sectors per day than Dash 8 operators. Time aloft means nothing. I was referring specifically to landing gear cycles per day.
                            If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                            • #15
                              Propeller blade slices though fuselage

                              A woman has described how she is “lucky” to be alive after being hit in the head by a part of an aircraft’s propeller that had sliced through the plane's fuselage following an emergency landing.


                              If a busted landing gear then I assume the propeller blade hit the runway, broke off, then impacted the fuselage.

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