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  • new Rekkof (Fokker) F90 and F120

    hi,

    maybe you have heard something about those new planes, 90seater and 120seater, so, a little other market than the F70/100....

    now, I am wondering how far they are? Saw a pic on another site with F-GPXL (ex AirFrance Régional F100) with a greenish-yellowish paint-coat, with the company "DGA Essais en vol" (not sure if I can post it here?)

    is that any sign of development for the new generation? really looking forward to see the new fokker, modern, quite, winglet-equiped,....

    thanks a lot
    please take a look at my website: www.bae-atp.webs.com

    flown on: Boeing 737-400/500/700wl/800wl * B767-300ER * MD11 * B757-200 * MD82 * ERJ 145 * E-190 * Q400 * BAe ATP * Jetstream J41 recently added: B717-200

    flown with: TUIfly.de, Luxair, CityBird, Transavia.com, Air Moldova, AirFrance, Régional, West Air Luxembourg, skyexpress.gr recently added: Volotea

  • #2
    Makes me wonder which markets the new concepts envisage. The business changed so dramatically that this segment - in simple words - generally too much airplane for regional feeders and to small for mainline. Another negative factor is that the Fokker-design is no longer the most modern (even with enhancements) and the former (attractive) customer-base is no longer. It is really a shame that Fokker collapsed in the 1990s. I believe that the Fokker 70/100/130 could have been a very attractive answer to the needs of a number of airlines during the 1990s.

    Personally I would love to see a new Fokker-Jetline. I always had high respect for the soundness of their designs.
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    • #3
      Hasn't this Rekkof deal been floating around off-and-on for the past few years now?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by IberiaMD-87 View Post
        Makes me wonder which markets the new concepts envisage. The business changed so dramatically that this segment - in simple words - generally too much airplane for regional feeders and to small for mainline. Another negative factor is that the Fokker-design is no longer the most modern (even with enhancements) and the former (attractive) customer-base is no longer. It is really a shame that Fokker collapsed in the 1990s. I believe that the Fokker 70/100/130 could have been a very attractive answer to the needs of a number of airlines during the 1990s.

        Personally I would love to see a new Fokker-Jetline. I always had high respect for the soundness of their designs.
        And yet, the E-Jet series sold more than 1000 in the last 10 years, and counting.

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          And yet, the E-Jet series sold more than 1000 in the last 10 years, and counting.
          Yes, but the E-Jet was optimized for regional use and it's a completely new design. And from the passenger standpoint, it's a great plane for 3-4 hour legs.

          The problem with the F-100 is that at the end of the day, you still have the basic design of a 1960s plane with the consequent limitations, and some relatively inefficient engines. Similarly sized planes like the 717, 737-6, A318 weren't very successful either.

          I feel like this came too late to the "70-90 party", since there's Embraer, Bombardier and Mitsubishi. Now, since the F-70/100 basic airframe is already there, they could potentially have an earlier EIS and market it among customers who need planes without the wait. Perhaps even as a replacement to existing F-70/F-100 fleets. But then again, airlines are already replacing those with current offerings.

          I definitely want to see the performance numbers since they are using a PW1000 engine with a bypass ratio of 10 or 12, which gives good fuel consumption for the amount of thrusties produced.

          I do want to see the F-100 continue to exist in some form or another, but this whole thing with Rekkof has been going on for a while, and I won't believe it'll happen until I see the project going beyond a CATIA rendering.
          [SIGNATURE GOES HERE]

          Felipe Garcia

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          • #6
            Felipe, I didn't intend to mess with the technical aspects of the design, just with the market conditions for airplanes of this size, that was the core of Iberia's post.

            That, and...
            Originally posted by Felipe Garcia View Post
            Yes, but the E-Jet [...] from the passenger standpoint, it's a great plane for 3-4 hour legs.
            3-4 hours legs are too long when your legs are too long, like in my case. I had the... opportunity... to fly in Austral's E-190 a couple of times in the last year, and the first thing that I think when I seat and try to fit my legs between two seats with a pitch shorter than my femur (literally), is "I want off".

            Yes, I know, that's up to the airline not the airplane...

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • #7
              afaik the new fokker/rekkof planes are capable of doing very long legs, if I am correct, even a Paris-NYC might be possible....

              also, there has recently been a F100 being purchased which will see conversion into a total new XF90 or 120 .... the project seems now) at least on a good way,...

              don't forget that the F100 has nowadays a real opportunity,.... so many planes coming off-lease and already back in service with other airlines....
              please take a look at my website: www.bae-atp.webs.com

              flown on: Boeing 737-400/500/700wl/800wl * B767-300ER * MD11 * B757-200 * MD82 * ERJ 145 * E-190 * Q400 * BAe ATP * Jetstream J41 recently added: B717-200

              flown with: TUIfly.de, Luxair, CityBird, Transavia.com, Air Moldova, AirFrance, Régional, West Air Luxembourg, skyexpress.gr recently added: Volotea

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              • #8
                F-GPXL has nothing to do with NG Aircraft (Rekkof). PH-MKH (F100 proto) is being converted as a tech demonstrator for NG Aircraft.
                “The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire.”

                Erwin

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                • #9
                  And yet, the E-Jet series sold more than 1000 in the last 10 years, and counting.
                  You are absolutely right. E-Jets and the larger versions of the CRJ sold well in this segment but I tend to say that the majority of these planes are operated by regional subsidiaries and not mainline (I know that there are exemptions). I only wanted to say that the segment of 90 to 110-seaters is no longer the originally one tapped by the Fokker 100 in the 1980s and 1990s. Are there any advantages to select the new Fokker? I don´ t see such advantages. Newer design like the Cseries etc. will probably provide vast improvements which won´ t be possible with a new Fokker based on the Fokker 100.


                  "70-90 party"
                  I would be pleased to attend such a party - music!


                  afaik the new fokker/rekkof planes are capable of doing very long legs, if I am correct, even a Paris-NYC might be possible....
                  Seems strange to me to provide an aircraft with such a performance. The original Fokker 100 was optimized for short hauls. Such small airplanes can´t provide a cost-structure low enough to compete with larger airplanes in such markets. It was possible many years ago to operate 727s, A320s or MD-80 over the pond but this is not feasible in most cases. IIRC Air Canada luckily operated or operates A319s between Halifax and London - this is nice .
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                  • #10
                    maybe they plan also to have it as a XFBJ (business jet) ? but so the new prototype (the former retired prototype) is already in (re-)production? like a snake.... peeling off the old, afterwards, shining and looking like new.... ^^

                    has anyone more insight into the project? maybe even some people familiar to the XF?
                    please take a look at my website: www.bae-atp.webs.com

                    flown on: Boeing 737-400/500/700wl/800wl * B767-300ER * MD11 * B757-200 * MD82 * ERJ 145 * E-190 * Q400 * BAe ATP * Jetstream J41 recently added: B717-200

                    flown with: TUIfly.de, Luxair, CityBird, Transavia.com, Air Moldova, AirFrance, Régional, West Air Luxembourg, skyexpress.gr recently added: Volotea

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