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  • OMG it's so simple!

    This could be the huge breakthrough in airline safety we've been waiting for. UAL management apparently has just hit upon the idea of telling pilots not to make mistakes!

    United Airlines has issued a stern warning to its pilots after mistakes in the cockpit put passenger planes in potential danger.


    Why didn't someone think of that earlier?
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

  • #2
    Originally posted by elaw View Post
    This could be the huge breakthrough in airline safety we've been waiting for. UAL management apparently has just hit upon the idea of telling pilots not to make mistakes!

    United Airlines has issued a stern warning to its pilots after mistakes in the cockpit put passenger planes in potential danger.


    Why didn't someone think of that earlier?
    In the movie "Thirteen days", about the Missiles Crisis with Cuba and the USSR, the secretary of President Kennedy makes a phone call to the pilot of the U2 that was about to take-off bound for Cuba to assess the operational status of the nuclear missiles. "We want to avoid an escalation of the conflict that would let us with no other option than a war, so I have a direct order from the President himself: Don't get shot down!". Of course this stupid pilot didn't follow the order either!

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #3
      Now, I agree with all these critics to United's memo, but this is something that I didn't expect.

      "The responsibility is in their hands. If there have been so many safety incidents it's an indication training needs to be improved," the pilot said.
      From a pilot?

      I mean, maybe he/she is right. But don't he/she thinks that maybe the pilots also have some role to play to prevent pilots' mistakes?

      I would very much like to see a summary of the mistakes. Because training is one thing. Being a good professional is another.

      How many of these mistakes were related to not doing what the pilots were trained and knew they had to do? (like keeping a sterile cockpit in critical phases of flight, aborting an unstabillized approach, etc...)

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

      Comment


      • #4
        ...evasive moves to avoid crashing into the ground, performing what's calledan emergency pull up maneuver...
        ...not to be confused with other evasive moves called emergency left turn, emergency right turn to avoid crashing into tall buildings or even the dreaded emergency dive to avoid crashing into certain oncoming aircraft.

        ...and wow, media..."an unusually blunt" tone in a memo...yeah, that will certainly reduce errors.

        Maybe if Southwest would use "unusually blunt" tones in their maintenance memos Evan wouldn't be seeking out other carriers when they're available.

        Of course, I do see a cultural problem...it was these guys who managed to stick every last carry-on bag BUT mine into the baggage compartment and after 1 hour and 50 minutes past scheduled departure and 5 min before push back told folks it would be ok to deplane.
        Last edited by 3WE; 2015-02-26, 21:25. Reason: Changed terminology to "unusually blunt"
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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        • #5
          Oh c'mon give the guy some credit!

          You know how the Earth has this annoying habit of just popping up where you least expect it...
          Be alert! America needs more lerts.

          Eric Law

          Comment


          • #6
            "The responsibility is in their hands. If there have been so many safety incidents it's an indication training needs to be improved,"
            I get the firm impression management no longer understands how things work in the trenches. You don't issue stern memos, you provide stern training to address the issues systematically. Unless you would sooner impact terrain than impact your bottom line. And the best place I expect the stern criticism to come from is the check-ride seat.

            Memos... that's so clueless.

            ANNC: "PULL UP, TERRAIN"
            PM: Ugh, Bill, aren't you going to pull up?
            PF: Why, should I?
            PM: Didn't you get the memo?

            Comment


            • #7
              Anyone for a "Dilbert" spinoff based on airline ops?

              Management understands what they choose to understand, and what they choose to understand is represented by this symbol: "$". Or an equivalent one, depending on what country you're in.

              Training and even checkrides consume a lot of "$"... memos are cheap.
              Be alert! America needs more lerts.

              Eric Law

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by elaw View Post
                Anyone for a "Dilbert" spinoff based on airline ops?

                Management understands what they choose to understand, and what they choose to understand is represented by this symbol: "$". Or an equivalent one, depending on what country you're in.

                Training and even checkrides consume a lot of "$"... memos are cheap.
                .

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  I get the firm impression management no longer understands how things work in the trenches. You don't issue stern memos, you provide stern training to address the issues systematically.
                  I tend to disagree here. Not undermining the major effect of training on safety, I bet that most of the everyday mistakes are the result of the pilot (or any other function in any company), intentionally or not, not doing what he very well knew he had to do and was properly trained to do it.

                  It's very hard to address that with just training, but it can be addressed with culture, that is strongly influenced by management policies (the real ones that are executed, not the one written on a paper and hanging from the wall) and their everyday reaction to everyday situations (in both good and bad directions).

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    I tend to disagree here. Not undermining the major effect of training on safety, I bet that most of the everyday mistakes are the result of the pilot (or any other function in any company), intentionally or not, not doing what he very well knew he had to do and was properly trained to do it.

                    It's very hard to address that with just training, but it can be addressed with culture, that is strongly influenced by management policies (the real ones that are executed, not the one written on a paper and hanging from the wall) and their everyday reaction to everyday situations (in both good and bad directions).
                    Good God!, I will halfway agree with Evan.

                    Sending a memo that says (unusually bluntly), "Hey guys, quit screwing up." is kind of lame AND doesn't necessarily delve in to the more important WHY, and does smell of people pushing pencils on the top floor that have not sat in the cockpit for two hours while the only thing ops will say is "monitor frequency"

                    Of course, I don't think STERN training is THE ONE AND ONLY answer either...(Cue duty hour procedures and a few other things).
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      ...dilbert...
                      If you think about Dilbert too much, it really isn't all that funny but instead a bit too close to the truth at times.

                      [No specific reference to aviation safety intended]
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                        Good God!, I will halfway agree with Evan.

                        Sending a memo that says (unusually bluntly), "Hey guys, quit screwing up." is kind of lame ...
                        But I agree with that. A memo (by itself) is not a solution. But I fear that training (by itself) would not be a good solution either for the type of mistakes that I imagine they are doing, which are probably not of the "failing-to-disconnect-the-FD-as-part-of-the-UAS-memory-items" type.

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                        Comment

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