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  • #31
    Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
    Quite a few fields actually. I have a friend in Arizona who flies a crop duster and I went out with his support crew. He surveys the fields to be dusted noting light poles, telegraph poles, farm buildings etc. He publicises locally the fact that low level crop dusting is going to take place and and informs the local police as his aircraft has sometimes been reported as crashing with smoke pouring from it !

    Next question ?


    Aw Brian, you are really showing your (our) age now. "Telegraph poles" 90% of the kids on this site have no idea what those are! ,

    And 3WE, Brian was spot on in his previous post. I have a couple of very close friends that have been doing Ag application for 30+ years. Most is now done with special GPS units, but in the old days they were walked prior and ribboned off.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      Aw Brian, you are really showing your (our) age now. "Telegraph poles" 90% of the kids on this site have no idea what those are! ,

      And 3WE, Brian was spot on in his previous post. I have a couple of very close friends that have been doing Ag application for 30+ years. Most is now done with special GPS units, but in the old days they were walked prior and ribboned off.
      I think I know six (+/- a few), which If I count right is more than you guys put together.

      Two are dead from crashes.

      Every one of them has dealt with an engine failure and broken an airplane (or two).

      One told me about flying while unable to pass a medical, faking his BFR and drinking on the job and told stories of colleagues doing the same. (He is not one of the dead ones.)

      One is somewhat anal retentive, and does garner some extra respect with me- I think I could maybe comfortably ride with him. He too has dealt with engine failures and bent planes, but continues to take the increased risk. He also knows how to fly so close to you standing on the ground that you take a a few steps backwards.

      Yes, they have nice, slick GPS rigs to help them line up and turn on and turn off their spray or fertilizer and make even, accurate applications. And they have special ratings and licenses. But that does not make the industry as pristine as you guys imply.
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • #33
        Bobby, I just figured out where we went wrong.....we had the nerve to DISAGREE with King 3WE !! SHOCK HORROR !

        I should have remembered that he is the fount of all worthwhile knowledge and nobody else can possibly be correct if he doesn't agree with them. I know what else he is.....but being an administrator here I can't use that kind of language !
        If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
          One told me about flying while unable to pass a medical, faking his BFR and drinking on the job and told stories of colleagues doing the same. (He is not one of the dead ones yet.)
          Fixed...
          Be alert! America needs more lerts.

          Eric Law

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
            Bobby, I just figured out where we went wrong.....we had the nerve to be factually wrong.
            Fixed.

            FWIW- I regularly make mistakes too. Gabriel typically catches them; however he also has some Ag-Pilot friends he ranks as not quite living up to the heavy jet levels of safety culture.
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by elaw View Post
              Fixed...
              If it were not for Murphy's law and whom God chooses to favor, I would Concur.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by elaw View Post
                Originally Posted by 3WE
                One told me about flying while unable to pass a medical, faking his BFR and drinking on the job and told stories of colleagues doing the same. (He is not one of the dead ones yet.)
                Fixed...
                One thing I am 100% sure and I want to see who dares to challenge me on this:

                This pilot will also die.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by 3WE
                  He also knows how to fly so close to you standing on the ground that you take a a few steps backwards.
                  Was it sort of like this?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                    Bobby, I just figured out where we went wrong.....we had the nerve to DISAGREE with King 3WE !! SHOCK HORROR !

                    I should have remembered that he is the fount of all worthwhile knowledge and nobody else can possibly be correct if he doesn't agree with them. I know what else he is.....but being an administrator here I can't use that kind of language !

                    Yes Brian, you are absolutely right. However, "And they have special ratings and licenses". Mr. know it all is WRONG. There are no special ratings or licenses for Ag application.

                    I do think 3 WE might have one of the other ratings out there, Hotter than Air!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                      I think I know six (+/- a few), which If I count right is more than you guys put together.

                      Two are dead from crashes.

                      Every one of them has dealt with an engine failure and broken an airplane (or two).

                      One told me about flying while unable to pass a medical, faking his BFR and drinking on the job and told stories of colleagues doing the same. (He is not one of the dead ones.)

                      One is somewhat anal retentive, and does garner some extra respect with me- I think I could maybe comfortably ride with him. He too has dealt with engine failures and bent planes, but continues to take the increased risk. He also knows how to fly so close to you standing on the ground that you take a a few steps backwards.

                      Yes, they have nice, slick GPS rigs to help them line up and turn on and turn off their spray or fertilizer and make even, accurate applications. And they have special ratings and licenses. But that does not make the industry as pristine as you guys imply.
                      Who implied the industry was "pristine"? lol

                      You tell Gabriel that the whacko maneuver in the video is "nothing Ag pilots don't do regularly". It is pointed out to you that most Ag pilots are actually really diligent and careful in the planning, preparation, and execution of what they do, and the two are not really comparable. As your example to disprove this you use an anecdote about some drunk who faked his BFR and couldn't pass a medical who flew Ag?

                      hahah...did I recap this correctly?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                        There are no special ratings or licenses for Ag application.

                        I do think 3 WE might have one of the other ratings out there, Hotter than Air!
                        So, a commercial pilot's license entitles one to apply restricted-use pesticides.

                        I'm constantly amazed at what I learn around here.
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          In Argentina there is a Piloto Aeroaplicador licence (not just rating).

                          Prerequisites are:
                          CPL or better.
                          21 y/o or more.
                          Class I medical.
                          400 hours TT in command since PPL.
                          10 hours of instruction (the instructor must hold both CFI and AG licences).
                          Instructor's endorsement.
                          Pass written exam (including a bunch of AG chemical things).
                          Pass oral and flight test with official flight examiner.

                          Having the AG pilot job so many especial hazards and techniques that are specific of that activity, both in the flying part as in the handling of dangerous products, I would be surprised that the US doesn't require at least a rating.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            According to a document on the FAA's website:
                            Originally posted by FAA doc
                            Aerial application pilots are covered by FAR Part 137. These regulations govern agriculture aircraft in the United States and encompass the dispensing of any chemical designed to treat the soil or crops. Special certification rules for these pilots include knowledge and skill tests for the safe handling of poisons, agricultural chemicals, and basic medical knowledge of the symptoms of poisoning. There is also a special flight test and many of the rules of other aircraft operations are altered for Part 137 aircraft. These include a requirement for a safety harness, operating without positioning lights, and restrictions from operating over congested areas. Special record keeping must be maintained. If a private individual dispenses spray over their own property, they may operate as a private pilot, with a third class medical certificate, but those individuals flying for hire are required to have a commercial license and a second class medical certificate.
                            Due to the nature of the aircraft used, the pilot would also usually have to have tailwheel and high-performance endorsements.
                            Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                            Eric Law

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
                              Who implied the industry was "pristine"? lol

                              You tell Gabriel that the whacko maneuver in the video is "nothing Ag pilots don't do regularly". It is pointed out to you that most Ag pilots are actually really diligent and careful in the planning, preparation, and execution of what they do, and the two are not really comparable. As your example to disprove this you use an anecdote about some drunk who faked his BFR and couldn't pass a medical who flew Ag?

                              hahah...did I recap this correctly?
                              No, ha ha, you have trouble counting...It was six ag pilots, most of whom described dangerous situations or (strong cross wind, known engine difficulties, crashes, etc) along with drinking and faking BFR's and flying without a medical.

                              It's a dangerous job- even for the anal-retentive, i-dotting, t-crossing ones...unfortunately, the industry appeals to risk-takers.

                              Also, I want to be clear that the Argentine guys were in gross violation of rules and being more dangerous than had they maintained 500 feet of clearance (I said that previously, right?)

                              But I also ask, how many people have been killed by aerobatic pilots making an illegal-thrill-low-buzzing-pass versus people killed simply because they lived in alignment with a runway or flight path? Or how about by-standers that have been killed by planned aerobatic events versus quick, unrehearsed, unsanctioned buzzes? While one involves "pushing limits and breaking rules", I don't think the final body count is that different than folks killed because they were simply on the approach-departure course of an airport.

                              Just separating actual stats from illegalities. (They aren't necessarily the same, nor does it say that the buzzing was an ok thing either.)
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by elaw View Post
                                According to a document on the FAA's website:

                                Due to the nature of the aircraft used, the pilot would also usually have to have tailwheel and high-performance endorsements.
                                COOL! So, If I can get a high-performance tail dragger sign off (might need the particular plane due to the HP/speed) (or helicopter rating), I can take my PPL and my Pesticide applicator's license and spray my own stuff (as long as I'm not paid to do so!)
                                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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