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777 Crash and Fire at SFO

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  • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
    Hmmmmm - makes sense, Gabriel. What is the spool-up time for the PW4090 from idle to 100%?
    i think from flight Idle to max pwr should not be more than 5 sec

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    • [QUOTE=Jorge;610160]One of the local stations actually showed it live yesterday. They sent out a tug and it essentially preformed a what the California DMV calls a"3 point turn" and took it back to the gate so the passengers could deplane.

      I think everyone wanted to get off that plane after seeing that horrific crash!

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      • Originally posted by AVION1 View Post
        Those pilots should surrender their pilot's licenses and ASIANA airlines should be banned from flying into the United States. And their passports should be confiscated.
        Tell me again.....which airline is it that employs you as a Training Captain on 777's ?
        If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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        • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          Just a comment. Apparently the runway they were using had a working PAPI but the GS was out of service, and the parallel runway had a working GS but the PAPI was out of service. Not that it changes anything what you've said.
          I'm just wondering, is it possible to use the LOC from 28L and the GS from the 28R?

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          • Originally posted by Evan View Post
            I'm just wondering, is it possible to use the LOC from 28L and the GS from the 28R?
            In the Tomahawk, not possible.

            While the LOC and GS have independent frequencies, there is a table that pair them one to one. In the NARCO receiver that I used, you only selected the LOC frequency and the corresponding GS frequency was tuned itself in the same act.

            In fact, the charts don't even show the GS frequency, although it can be found in some airport directories.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
              Hmmmmm - after reading the thread and watching the posted video links and thinking about how the aircraft got too slow and too low and how the captain was not very experienced and the weather was good here is a question that came to my mind:

              Both 28 runways at KSFO are equipped with PAPI. What were the guys in the cockpit looking at while the 777 wrangled itself from their hands? Normally, the PAPI should have quickly alerted them that their sink rate was getting too high and that they were descending below the (visual) glide slope.

              I wonder if they had flaps at the wrong setting?

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              • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                Just a comment. Apparently the runway they were using had a working PAPI but the GS was out of service, and the parallel runway had a working GS but the PAPI was out of service. Not that it changes anything what you've said.

                They were enough behind the plane to take a fully unstabilized approach to a smoking hole in the ground: Roughly, the airspeed was continuously decaying along at least the last 80 seconds, from way above Vref (137kts) to way below Vref. The vertical speed was continuously decaying in the last 50 seconds from way above the typical 700fpm to almost parallel to the ground. The descent gradient also was continuously decaying in the last 50 seconds from way steeper that 3° to, again, almost parallel to the ground. The engines were at idle until 1.5 seconds before the impact. Other than the heading and the config, I don't know what other stabilized approach criteria they could have violated. I guess that things like airspeed are more important than the PAPI, so if they ignored the former why not the later?

                Other than that, MAYBE they were looking at the PAPI. It was 4 white for most of the approach. As one light turned red they started to pull up, but they were descending very fast and the lights quickly changed to 2, 3 and 4 red. So they kept pulling up but by then they had run out of airspeed, and with the biggest (and slowest to spool-up) engines in the industry at idle, they also run out of thrust, and being so low, also out of altitude. By then, they had nothing to trade for speed (neither altitude nor fuel).
                Pretty much.

                Any way you slice it, it just screams incredibly poor airmanship.

                @T.O.G.A., multiple news reports stated the flaps were set at the usual 30 degrees.

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                • What story does this tell us?

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                  • 43 hours

                    Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                    3WE, agree on all points, but if someone was looking out the window ... whatever happened to the primary rule that the landing spot should stay in one place in the windshield?

                    They were most certainly ..

                    Regarding the video, it will be interesting because it looked like they were dragging water (perhaps) before it strikes the seawall.
                    The Captain, according to CNN , has only 43 hours on type. Is that a material factor in allowing a stall to develop?

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                    • Originally posted by Jingogunner View Post
                      The Captain, according to CNN , has only 43 hours on type. Is that a material factor in allowing a stall to develop?
                      He also has some 10k hours in 737's and 747's. One has to wonder why the 1st officer, who was performing as a check pilot with some 3k hours in type, didn't catch what was going on and respond earlier.

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                      • Originally posted by evan View Post
                        i'm just wondering, is it possible to use the loc from 28l and the gs from the 28r?

                        no!

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                        • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                          Tell me again.....which airline is it that employs you as a Training Captain on 777's ?

                          Spot on Brian!

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                          • Originally posted by Deadstick View Post
                            He also has some 10k hours in 737's and 747's. One has to wonder why the 1st officer, who was performing as a check pilot with some 3k hours in type, didn't catch what was going on and respond earlier.
                            Channeling Chester Nimitz, "the world wonders."

                            This turkey was definitely trotting to water.

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                            • Originally posted by Jingogunner View Post
                              The Captain, according to CNN , has only 43 hours on type. Is that a material factor in allowing a stall to develop?
                              Every pilot has 43 hours at some point on any aircraft type. How many 787 pilots have 43 hours?

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                              • seatbelts

                                i have to ask, why do flight attendants have four point seatbelts, crew five point seatbelts and pax two point seatbelts that have not been used in automobiles in 40yrs?

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