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Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

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  • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
    But if that realization led him to fly a plane full of people into a mountain, that might very well be called a psychological disorder.
    Yes but not a chronic one! I believe it to be an acute act based on his diagnosis, not something he planned days in advance. In other words, I don't believe he was being treated for depression. Just my opinion.

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    • I've gotten to know a few bi-polar, manic-depressive and schizophenic people. Things can shift very quickly. It's wild speculation of course, but I would not be surprised if this F/O had no intention of crashing the plane until the CPT left the cockpit and the sudden impulse took over.[/QUOTE]

      I agree!

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      • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
        But if that realization led him to fly a plane full of people into a mountain, that might very well be called a psychological disorder.
        Com'on Peter. Don't you know we voted out logic on this thread?

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        • But the issue is: whatever medical reason, He had a leave note not allowing to do his job.
          Due to a flaw in the communication between. His doctor and his employer he did and probably killed himself and 149 people

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          • Originally posted by Evan View Post
            Com'on Peter. Don't you know we voted out logic on this thread?
            Com'on, Evan.. can't I at least hope?

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            • Originally posted by Observer View Post
              But the issue is: whatever medical reason, He had a leave note not allowing to do his job.
              Due to a flaw in the communication between. His doctor and his employer he did and probably killed himself and 149 people
              Well, I don't know how it is in Brazil, but in Germany, if it's not a company doctor, it's up to the patient to inform the employer that you are sick. If I get sick, my private doctor will definitely not call my employer... I'm pretty sure, he isn't even allowed to do that.

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              • It is the same in Brazil, Peter. And I suppose the same worldwide also.
                But I insist that from a safety point-of-view there is a clear flaw with room to create improvements

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                • Most of the suicides occurred when one pilot was alone in the cockpit. Need to have a FA in the cockpit while one of the pilots is away. That seems to be the only way out to reduce the possibility of suicides.
                  Air crashes don't just happen... www.aircrash.ucoz.net

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                  • Originally posted by Observer View Post
                    It is the same in Brazil, Peter. And I suppose the same worldwide also.
                    But I insist that from a safety point-of-view there is a clear flaw with room to create improvements
                    There is definitely room for improvement, but there will always remain a risk... Let's say that a doctor is required to report a disease/illness for certain people in certain jobs to their employer. Chances are that people will try to self-diagnose and self-medicate if they suspect the illness will cause them to lose their jobs or get grounded... in that case, they would start to not even go to the doctor...

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                    • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
                      There is definitely room for improvement, but there will always remain a risk... Let's say that a doctor is required to report a disease/illness for certain people in certain jobs to their employer. Chances are that people will try to self-diagnose and self-medicate if they suspect the illness will cause them to lose their jobs or get grounded... in that case, they would start to not even go to the doctor...
                      Or in the worst scenario people may put a plane with 149 lifes on board in a mountain If they do not comply with doctor's leave note

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                      • Originally posted by Observer View Post
                        Or in the worst scenario people may put a plane with 149 lifes on board in a mountain If they do not comply with doctor's leave note
                        True... if the doctor had been required to report the F/O, this could have been avoided... but I think, that if the doctor had been required to report him, he wouldn't have seen the doctor at all...

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                        • Originally posted by Evan View Post

                          There should never be a scenario where either pilot can be locked out of the cockpit. Each should have a code that is different form the cabin crew and cannot be locked out. A key provision should also exist to operate the deadbolt from the outside. I think they took a too simplistic solution to the problem after 9/11. Now that we've seen the dark side of that, changes must be made.

                          Not as hard as you think.
                          The counter argument is; if the code is compromised an attacker can enter un-impeded.

                          Have two crew on the flight deck at all times and change the lock so that it needs two people to operate it.

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                          • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
                            Well, I don't know how it is in Brazil, but in Germany, if it's not a company doctor, it's up to the patient to inform the employer that you are sick. If I get sick, my private doctor will definitely not call my employer... I'm pretty sure, he isn't even allowed to do that.
                            He is not allowed unless you have signed a waver. Which you have to do for some jobs. I am surprised commercial pilot is not one of them.

                            If you have a mental illness and are receiving prescription medication for it, it is much harder to detect.

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                            • Originally posted by Quench View Post
                              The counter argument is; if the code is compromised an attacker can enter un-impeded.
                              Here the thing about that... The hardened cockpit is a deterrent. When forming plots, terrorists go for the soft target. Make it hard and they look elsewhere. Unlike blockbuster films, this is actually how it works. Even if terrorists could somehow get a code, how would they be sure it works when planning ahead? And if the codes are generated randomly before each flight, how is that going to happen?

                              All that is needed here is a deterrent. The current scheme is overkill. If the planes on 9/11 had just a standard door lock and a reinforced door and the pilots knew it was fatal to open them, 9/11 would have never been attempted.

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                              • Originally posted by Quench View Post
                                Have two crew on the flight deck at all times and change the lock so that it needs two people to operate it.
                                For the airlines, that has the added appeal of being dead (so to speak) cheap because a F/A can be platooned for the short span of time a relief break requires one of the flight deck crew to be out of position. Of course the next thing to happen will be a suicidal flight deck crew member who overpowers the F/A platooned as seat warmer. What then?

                                Arrow

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