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  • Asia crash, Slightly OT: CNN Rant

    Evening news, 1/29/2015. We see a retired United A320 pilot "do what Air Asia Did" in an A320 simulator.

    I question the accuracy...it's reported the plane banked left and wallowed and stalled.

    Yeah, sure you can halfway repeat it (and they did) and maybe it looks frighteningly similar to reality, but you are copying the airplane movements- NOT repeating what actually happened.

    The gem though was the Pilot saying "We are too slow, we are stalling we need more power".

    No, Gabe, the words "Angle of Attack" were not mentioned...and remember, speed and power do affect stalls

    Of course, guess what I think we saw...

    ...the highly-trained Airbus pilot reciting the well-practiced procedure (indeed, you do need more speed and power)...but God forbid we mention the fundamental of lower the nose like you do repeatedly in a 150 in your first 10 hours of training...I bet that was "untrained". Especially since it's an Air Bus

    Conversely, God forbid the media report an actual fact, when "too slow and more power" makes much more sense than AOA to someone who drives a car.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    Am I missing something? AFAIK nothing has been released from the report or the CVR. I'm hoping for a leak from an actual inside source. Thus far all I know is that they climbed, they stalled and they failed to recover (despite stall warnings galore). There are a number of Airbus factors that could have played a role, such as thrust lock, frozen THS, invalid AoA warning abatements and ECAM hysteria. But we've been down this road.

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    • #3
      The co-pilot was flying AirAsia Flight QZ8501, as the more experienced captain monitored the flight that crashed last month with 162 people on board.


      (Choose "Pilot simulates what happened in the AirAsia cockpit")
      "I know that at times I can be a little over the top." -ITS

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Evan View Post
        Am I missing something? AFAIK nothing has been released from the report or the CVR. I'm hoping for a leak from an actual inside source. Thus far all I know is that they climbed, they stalled and they failed to recover (despite stall warnings galore).
        Here's what's supposedly new: It appeared that the plane rolled LEFT a bit as the climb started.

        No proof that's confirmed, no reason to believe it's NOT true, no great significance that it rolled and wallowed a bit after stalling either.

        Edit: Actually, what's new was the info-babe acting shocked and trying to imagine how it must have FELT.
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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        • #5
          And now, the Trans-Asia ATR

          Originally posted by This Steve dude on ABC
          "It was just pretty clear what happened. It's a classic stall -- a loss of lift," said ABC News aviation and military consultant Steve Ganyard.
          @#%@#%@!

          No...it's pretty clear what happened, the plane hit a bridge and a river...THAT'S what caused the crash...



          Or was the crash caused by the aircraft leaving the ground?

          ...

          OR

          Maybe it's something else in between in the course of events...

          I know they need to report that it seems to be in a stall, but damn it reporters...that sentence needs to say "but as to what got the plane TO that state, that's the bigger question that will take some time to answer"

          [/Rant for the time being]
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
            @#%@#%@!

            No...it's pretty clear what happened, the plane hit a bridge and a river...THAT'S what caused the crash...



            Or was the crash caused by the aircraft leaving the ground?

            ...

            OR

            Maybe it's something else in between in the course of events...

            I know they need to report that it seems to be in a stall, but damn it reporters...that sentence needs to say "but as to what got the plane TO that state, that's the bigger question that will take some time to answer"

            [/Rant for the time being]
            Well, the stall was part of the chain of events. Whether the crash could have been avoided if the stall had been avoided, or of the consequences of the crash could have been less severe had the stall been avoided, remains to be seen.

            It's confirmed that the pilot called "Mayday, mayday mayday! Engine flame out!", and let me guess that that was BEFORE classic stall.

            As for the root cause. I blame the take off. Yes, the classic take off, much more classic than the stall, part of the chain of events in nearly all the aviation crashes.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
              As for the root cause. I blame the take off. Yes, the classic take off, much more classic than the stall, part of the chain of events in nearly all the aviation crashes.
              Indeed, that's almost always part of it...

              ...except those planes that crash before takeoff.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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              • #8
                Trans Asia or Air Asia? I think the apples and oranges got mixed here?
                Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                  Trans Asia or Air Asia? I think the apples and oranges got mixed here?
                  Yes, they were knowingly mixed.

                  Read carefully- including the feature where you can give a "sub title" to posts- there's one up further in the thread that you might have missed.

                  The media's attention to sound bytes and feelings and disregard for facts is generally evident in all crashes including recent X-Asia and Y-Asia incidents.

                  "Here, watch me make an A-320 simulator go through the motions of Air Asia and imply that this is some sort of determination of what went wrong."

                  "It's clear what happened, the Trans Asia ATR stalled"...

                  Such a shame those pilots stalled their plane, Maybe the QRH for the ATR-72 (but not the -42) needs to say "don't stall the plane"...engine failure doesn't have anything to do with "what happened"?
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Whatever my wife had on her screen MSN or something was calling them hero pilots this morning. It said they weaved the plane between buildings and stalled into the river on purpose.

                    Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That's right, because a single engine failure on an airliner always means certain death!

                      Although it's always possible both engines failed... the pilots' options are somewhat more limited in that case.
                      Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                      Eric Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
                        Whatever my wife had on her screen MSN or something was calling them hero pilots this morning. It said they weaved the plane between buildings and stalled into the river on purpose.

                        Noting new:

                        "The voice of the tower controller telling Delta 191 to go around could be heard on the CVR, but for some reason the pilots chose to ignore the order"

                        ...right...

                        "Captain, the tower says to go around...No, I ignore him and instead hit that car and aim at that water tank."

                        I keep hoping someone will help them get it right, but then again, this Brian Williams thing is showing just how little accuracy matters.
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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