Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

AirAsia flight missing

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    May need a dissertation on the question: Can you really un-stall a fully stalled airliner?
    Originally posted by Gabriel

    ...A dissertation...
    Thanks.

    And it even fits on one computer screen without the need for scrolling.

    Originally posted by Gabriel
    And, believe it or not, this condition must be demonstrated in test flights, not just theoretically derived.
    I won't argue that.

    ...then again, I almost get the feeling it's done once and only once...during one single certification test flight, where pilots are wearing parachutes on the special prototype test plane equipped with an ejection system, and that every last special sensor is turned on and data gathered and analyzed so that the simulator can do stalls...

    ...and then real planes are never ever stalled again except in cases where pilots forget basic airmanship knowledge that pulling up hard while going slow and ignoring all the warning thingies is a good way to stall an airliner.
    Last edited by 3WE; 2014-12-29, 12:19. Reason: Added bold for those with reading comprehension problems.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
      So the first question to answer your question is:
      Will the pilot even attempt to recover a full stall before (or even after) it becomes an obscene stall?
      Would that pilot even know how to recover. Would he even know what 'stall' is?

      I think it would be more constructive to make the cockpit obscene pilot resistant.

      At least this one should be found shortly. The Java Sea is about 100' deep.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Evan View Post
        Would that pilot even know how to recover. Would he even know what 'stall' is?

        I think it would be more constructive to make the cockpit obscene pilot resistant.

        At least this one should be found shortly. The Java Sea is about 100' deep.
        Do you mean just like the Colgan Air pilot, in Buffalo, NY?...he didn't know the Dash-8 was stalling?
        A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

        Comment


        • #34
          2nd worst A320 crash if all have perished, only TAM is worse.
          How deep is the sea where it was last seen?
          "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by 3we View Post

            i won't argue that.

            ...then again, i almost get the feeling it's done once and only once...during one single certification test flight.

            Wrong, it is done after every heavy check.

            Where pilots are wearing parachutes on the special prototype test plane equipped with an ejection system.

            This is a joke right? Parachutes or ejection seats on a 747, airbus whatever!

            yhgtbsm!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Alessandro View Post
              2nd worst A320 crash if all have perished, only TAM is worse.
              How deep is the sea where it was last seen?
              Did you by chance read the post 2 above that stated that is was 100' deep?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Gabriel
                Now, one thing is a "full stall" and another is an "obscene stall where the AoA reached 40°, 30 seconds after the plane has stalled and the pilots kept pulling up".
                One key element to this with Airbus logic is the different modes of Abnormal Attitude Law. Airbus pilots, especially the obscene ones, need to understand that in the realm of extreme AoA the pitch trim must be manually controlled.* Otherwise you can push down firmly with the thrust in TOGA and the stab trim frozen at full nose up and never get out of the stall. Even if you have never before touched the manual trim in flight, you must have this trained instinct.

                I don't think that is being well-instilled in the average Airbus pilot.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  Would that pilot even know how to recover. Would he even know what 'stall' is?

                  I think it would be more constructive to make the cockpit obscene pilot resistant.
                  ...but I thought that was what the "Airbus system" did?
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                    ...but I thought that was what the "Airbus system" did?
                    I'm talking about the cockpit door.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      The ground speed was 353 @ FL363.
                      That speed is coming from the aircraft's transponder, yes?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Evan
                        I think it would be more constructive to make the cockpit obscene pilot resistant.
                        Originally posted by 3WE
                        ...but I thought that was what the "Airbus system" did?
                        Originally posted by Evan View Post
                        I'm talking about the cockpit door.


                        I could not agree more. You made my day.

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                          Wrong, it is done after every heavy check.
                          Now, I know that the stickshaker is flight-tested after every heavy check (and that these flight tests are done by the regular airline's pilots with the regular airplane instruments and maybe a couple of maint or eng guys on board).

                          But do you really really REALLY test it to the full full FULL stall, I mean when the plane just stops flying and starts falling despite your pulling up? Or just an "approach to stall" (stickshaker, lower the nose, we're done).

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                            Now, I know that the stickshaker is flight-tested after every heavy check (and that these flight tests are done by the regular airline's pilots with the regular airplane instruments and maybe a couple of maint or eng guys on board).

                            But do you really really REALLY test it to the full full FULL stall, I mean when the plane just stops flying and starts falling despite your pulling up? Or just an "approach to stall" (stickshaker, lower the nose, we're done).
                            Boeing 787 Stall TestsPlease watch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOyx6tHePXI


                            Apparently they get close to this in certification testing. The test pilot in this video states that they go to the point of roll excursions and then fly it out. Not fully stalled/falling out of the sky of course. What would be the point? What they need to know is that it has benign stall characteristics where a pilot can recover short of 'full full stall'.

                            Recovery from a fully stalled condition should only be done in the sim. Here's why:

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Where pilots are wearing parachutes on the special prototype test plane equipped with an ejection system.

                              This is a joke right? Parachutes or ejection seats on a 747, airbus whatever!
                              Yes, test pilots and crew wear parachutes when testing many new aircraft. I've worked on escape systems for many new aircraft. The NASA 747 shuttle carrier aircraft included a bail-out escape hatch as did the USAF C-17 prototype. The Avanti test aircraft included a complex seat positioning system, door openers, and prop separation system. The crew of the Challenger biz jet that crashed at Mojave used parachutes which saved some of the flight test crew.

                              Several large aircraft used a stall recovery parachute when exploring stall conditions including the Concorde, DC-9, and C-17; although these systems have been deployed in flight for testing I do not know of one used in anger.

                              Parachuting from a large aircraft due to loss of control is hazardous but if one has to egress then it is better than staying on board.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                                Now, I know that the stickshaker is flight-tested after every heavy check (and that these flight tests are done by the regular airline's pilots with the regular airplane instruments and maybe a couple of maint or eng guys on board).

                                But do you really really REALLY test it to the full full FULL stall, I mean when the plane just stops flying and starts falling despite your pulling up? Or just an "approach to stall" (stickshaker, lower the nose, we're done).
                                It depends on who is doing the FCF. I have done them as an F/O with check airmen that have stopped at the shaker, and taken it to a full stall on more than one occasion.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X