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Malaysia Airlines Loses Contact With 777 en Route to Beijing

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  • Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
    Hypoxia or other source from something mechanical? The casual "nighty nite" instead of a crisp call back on the hand off followed by other erratic behavior such as turning off switches. Perhaps the plane flew on with no one home.
    From what I understand, turning off ACARS requires leaving the cockpit - so maybe the pilot was sleep walking, too. Also, course and altitude changes occurred later that required human piloting.

    Comment


    • Possible info on pilot coming to light...

      - a staunch supporter of political opposition leader, and purportedly a political activist.
      - hours before the flight, attended opposition leader's trial in which the politician was sentenced to 5 years on possibly trumped up charges of sodomy.
      - pilot lived in same house with divorced wife.
      - also reported that authorities seized pilot's computers three days ago despite denials of any home search.

      This all from UK Mail, so not necessarily credible. However, these claims should be relatively easy to confirm, and do sound plausible, so we'll see if there's any corroboration.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
        i've gotta take issue with all this "if it were terrorist...they would've claimed it since that what terror is all about..." crap

        au contraire! look how crazy everyone is right now. running around scared shitless that "terrorists" had the ability to pull this caper off. hell, even the idea that they could've done this is making people nuts. the very idea that the governments appear not to know what happened is certainly a scary proposition to many.

        besides, where is this terrorist rulebook that requires them to claim responsibility?
        Agre. Too often we think we can decide what is credible for them to do. I don't think our most experienced intelligence people can do that, so I'd give the public less than a slim chance to really determine how a group would behave when in possession of an airliner. Who predicted the knife attack by the Uighurs?

        Comment


        • Is it the Pilot (s)?!

          I was thinking since last week it was terrorism, but knew terrorists couldn't get through steel reinforced doors. So that leaves the pilots themselves, but they don't seem like the types. They are now searching near Australia, and we'll find it soon enough.
          Police search homes of Boeing 777's crew after Malaysian leader confirms that jetliner's disappearance wasn't accidental

          Comment


          • Originally posted by PhoenixFlight View Post
            They are now searching near Australia, and we'll find it soon enough.
            http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia...o-flight-crew/
            I wouldn't count on that Mate! They clearly haven't got the slightest clue what happened to this A/C or where it is and are changing their story with pathetic regularity. The fact they think it is either near the Kazak/Chinese Border or in the Indian Ocean demonstrates the point.

            The Indian Ocean is big set up and if it's gone down in there it will be found - but not necessarily during our time on Planet Earth.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
              i've gotta take issue with all this "if it were terrorist...they would've claimed it since that what terror is all about..." crap

              au contraire! look how crazy everyone is right now. running around scared shitless that "terrorists" had the ability to pull this caper off. hell, even the idea that they could've done this is making people nuts. the very idea that the governments appear not to know what happened is certainly a scary proposition to many.

              besides, where is this terrorist rulebook that requires them to claim responsibility?
              You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Fear_of_Flying View Post
                From what I understand, turning off ACARS requires leaving the cockpit - so maybe the pilot was sleep walking, too. Also, course and altitude changes occurred later that required human piloting.

                Wrong, You are confusing ACARS with the FDR & CVR. Besides if he or they had everyone out in the back, the whole aircraft is now accessible. With the auto pilot engaged he could have even gone down into the E&E compartment.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by MCM View Post
                  My only issue with BB's theory - you can't disable the passenger oxygen system that easily.

                  That doesn't preclude his theory - it just requires longer flight at high altitude until the limit of oxy endurance.

                  Would also depend if the 777 in question uses a gas bottle system, or the more common chemical generator system.

                  Not sure about your A/C MCM but on all models of the 74 I can disable the pax O2 from the cockpit. Not sure about the 777 but I would bet it is so.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                    Wrong, You are confusing ACARS with the FDR & CVR
                    To turn off the transmission of ACARS requires leaving the cockpit, but they didn't do that, so I stand corrected. The general point I was making remains.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PhoenixFlight View Post
                      I was thinking since last week it was terrorism, but knew terrorists couldn't get through steel reinforced doors. So that leaves the pilots themselves, but they don't seem like the types. They are now searching near Australia, and we'll find it soon enough.
                      http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia...o-flight-crew/
                      The pilots have voluntarily let friends in the cockpit in the past. So the reinforced door is useless if they try to be "nice" to someone and let them up there.

                      Comment


                      • Interesting post I found on the PPRuNe Forums (posted by HeathrowAirport)

                        Considering that so many people on here claim to be professionals, I am astounded that nobody has looked into the technical side of how much fuel was actually on-board for this rather short flight.
                        MAS370 got airborne at 1643z
                        LKP according to Radar/Mode S transponder was 1722z
                        Flight time was ZBAA0521 - 5 hours 21 minutes
                        When it went missing it had fuel reportedly for a further 7 hours 30 minutes.
                        39 minutes of TRIP fuel was burned to that point and presumably 10-15 minutes APU/TAXI.

                        So the big question that now remains, why was there an uplift of just over 8 hours for a 5 hours 21 minute flight. Planning within standards would suggests maybe just over 6 and 1/2 hours fuel. If this is the case then how comes the captain signed off and additional 1 hour 30 minutes fuel or more (that is public knowledge)

                        I've not suggested that the captain has anything to do with this, but all that extra fuel for a flight that isn't going very far has more questions than answers. After all, any additional uplift is his final decision.
                        AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                        Originally posted by orangehuggy
                        the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                        Comment


                        • "Jonti Roos, a South African woman who lives in Australia, told a TV show she and a pal once rode in the cockpit of a Malaysia Airlines flight after receiving an invite from now-missing co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid. Though airline regulations forbid passengers from entering the cockpit, Roos said she and her pal chatted and snapped pics with the two pilots, who even smoked cigarettes while airborne."

                          http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...#ixzz2w6In5PST

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
                            The pilots have voluntarily let friends in the cockpit in the past. So the reinforced door is useless if they try to be "nice" to someone and let them up there.
                            It is also useless if the bad guy is already sitting in the left or right seat. In fact, in that case it's worse than useless, since it would prevent the good guys from getting access to the flight deck to fight the bad guys.

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                            Comment


                            • there seems to be a lot of suggestion of pilot suicide but it just doesnt look like that to me...why would he care where he ditched the plane??? he'd just crash it.
                              i realise terrorism is being discounted due to the lack of a responsibility claim but what if this is just the first part of the act of terror....and the plane is going to be used for this second part...nobody is claiming it because they dont want to give a heads up.
                              since 2001 its pretty much impossible to gain access to the cockpit.....so maybe they have found another way to steal a plane....by getting the captain or FO on side...by whatever means....its not an impossible thing to happen....and more likely than him just having a breakdown...knocking everybody out first then flying it for another 6 hours just to put it in the middle of the indian ocean.

                              Comment


                              • Source: http://www.naturalnews.com/044307_Fl...ir_piracy.html

                                (NaturalNews) Exclusive investigation: The 239 people on board Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 may still be alive. This stunning realization is now supported by considerable emerging evidence detailed in this article. At the same time, the "vanished" Boeing 777 may also be in a hanger in Iran right now, being retrofitted with nuclear weapons and turned into a suicide bomb to be deployed over a major city in the Middle East. This possibility is discussed in detail, below, with supporting evidence.

                                The idea that Flight 370 passengers and crew may still be alive is not a bizarre theory. Even Reuters is now reporting that U.S. authorities have stated, "...it's also possible the plane may have landed somewhere."

                                Here's the evidence in support of this emerging "piracy" theory of what may have happened to Flight 370 and why the people who may have diverted it might also be planning on turning it into a weapon:

                                Five critical pieces of astonishing supporting evidence that Flight 370 passengers may still be alive.

                                Please understand that I do not wish to create false hope for all those families who have greatly suffered through this ordeal. My heart goes out to them, and we can only hope these 239 passengers and crew are, indeed, being kept alive somewhere to be used as a bargaining chip for ransom or political purposes. Here's the substantial evidence in support of this theory:

                                • Fact #1: No crash debris has been located, despite an exhaustive search

                                The search for debris has involved over two dozen nations and is unprecedented in aviation history. If the plane had crashed in the ocean anywhere near its intended flight path, the debris almost certainly would have been located by now.

                                • Fact #2: The plane's transponder appears to have been manually turned off several minutes before other communication systems stopped transmitting

                                As the Associated Press reports, "...key evidence for 'human intervention' in the plane's disappearance is that contact with its transponder stopped about a dozen minutes before a messaging system quit."

                                This almost certainly means someone deliberately disabled the transponder (the device which transmits location to air traffic controllers).

                                Why would someone do that? Because they don't want to be tracked as they change course and take the plane to a new destination.

                                A Reuters article adds more detail:

                                Analysis of the Malaysia data suggests the plane, with 239 people on board, diverted from its intended northeast route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing and flew west instead, using airline flight corridors normally employed for routes to the Middle East and Europe.

                                This adds some evidence to the idea that the plane may have been diverted to the Middle East. Together with the suspicion of stolen passports and the identities of those who traveled with them, this starts to paint a more clear picture in support of piracy as the underlying explanation, with possible ties to Iran (see more below).

                                What's especially fascinating to me in all this is that once the transponder was turned off, this massive aircraft apparently went into "stealth mode" where nobody could track it. Although this seems to defy the laws of physics and radar, we cannot argue with the fact that the plane was apparently untraceable as it flew for four hours after the transponder was turned off.

                                • Smoking Gun Fact #3: The plane's engines continued to broadcast performance data to satellite for four hours after radar contact was lost

                                This fact is really the smoking gun in all this. The Wall Street Journal has posted an excellent investigative article revealing that Boeing's own people have confirmed the plane kept flying four hours after disappearing off radar. As the WSJ reports:

                                The investigators believe the plane flew for a total of up to five hours, according to these people, based on analysis of signals sent by the Boeing satellite-communication link designed to automatically transmit the status of certain onboard systems to the ground. Throughout the roughly four hours after the jet dropped from civilian radar screens, these people said, the link operated in a kind of standby mode and sought to establish contact with a satellite or satellites. These transmissions did not include data, they said, but the periodic contacts indicate to investigators that the plane was still intact and believed to be flying.

                                Obviously, this system cannot continue to transmit data if the plane has crashed or exploded. The existence of these signals is very nearly conclusive proof that the aircraft continued flying and did not crash or explode. This eliminates most of the scenarios which would result in the death of passengers, and it strongly supports the piracy / hijacking scenario.

                                • Fact #4: The mobile devices of many passengers continued to stay online for days after the disappearance

                                The Washington Post has reported that phones of Flight 370 passengers were active and online for several days following the disappearance of the plane:

                                ...a few relatives said they were able to call the cellphones of their loved ones or find them on a Chinese instant messenger service called QQ that indicated that their phones were still somehow online. A migrant worker in the room said that several other workers from his company were on the plane, including his brother-in-law. Among them, the QQ accounts of three still showed that they were online, he said Sunday afternoon. Adding to the mystery, other relatives in the room said that when they dialed some passengers' numbers, they seemed to get ringing tones on the other side even though the calls were not picked up.

                                This evidence also fits the piracy theory remarkably well. If the plane was diverted and landed with passengers alive, their mobile devices could have indeed stayed online by automatically connecting to cell towers. The pirates or kidnappers may have overlooked this and failed to confiscate and destroy the mobile devices, allowing them to connect as long as they had battery life remaining.

                                • Fact #5: Black box transponders are not broadcasting homing signals because the plane never crashed

                                Normally, when aircraft crash into the ocean, their black boxes emit homing signal transmissions so they can be located. But no signals were ever detected from Flight 370 black boxes.

                                Now that seems to make sense: if the plane was hijacked / pirated, then it never crashed and the black boxes are still intact, sitting on the aircraft. This may be why they cannot be found (and why there is no wreckage or debris).

                                Could passengers still be alive?
                                If the plane kept flying for four more hours, then it was obviously being piloted with an intent to take it somewhere for some specific purpose. Anyone sophisticated enough to disable the transponder in-flight would have also been sophisticated enough to plan the final destination and landing of the aircraft.

                                As Reuters now reports:

                                Military radar data suggests a Malaysia Airlines jetliner missing for nearly a week was deliberately flown hundreds of miles off course, heightening suspicions of foul play among investigators, sources told Reuters on Friday.

                                Anyone pirating a jetliner and diverting it to another location really only has two key assets to work with: The aircraft itself, and the passengers onboard.

                                Obviously, acquiring a large aircraft like a Boeing 777 would be a huge asset for terrorist groups who could turn it into a weapon. If this is the intent, then the passengers on board would most likely be killed, as they would serve no particular purpose to the hijackers. Sadly, this remains one of the possible outcomes of piracy, and I don't want to publish any false hope that might mislead families who have lost loved ones. Realistically, the odds of the passengers being alive right now are probably no better than 1 in 3, in my estimation. But that's better than zero chance.

                                A second possibility is that the passengers themselves are going to be used as bargaining chips in an elaborate K&R (kidnap & ransom) scheme. It's also possible that selected passengers have special value in some way we don't yet realize, and only they will be kept alive as bargaining chips while the others are killed by the hijackers. Sadly, this is another likely outcome of all this.

                                And yet, despite all the very negative possible outcomes, there does remain a legitimate scenario in which the passengers and crew of Flight 370 remain alive at this very moment, long after their plane was diverted to an unknown location and safely landed. If this is the case, then we would expect to sooner or later hear from the hijackers with their list of demands for the safe return of the passengers. Such demands, if they ever materialize, would no doubt be multinational in nature.

                                On the more pessimistic side, if the hijackers only sought the aircraft and not the passengers, then we will probably never hear from them until the day a Boeing 777 flying without a transponder in "stealth mode" delivers a terrorist weapon of some sort to whatever city is being targeted.

                                Turning a Boeing 777 into a nuclear, chemical or biological weapon
                                A Boeing 777 is a very large aircraft and can obviously be outfitted with a wide variety of weapons systems by anyone with sufficient knowledge and technical skills (not to mention a soul of pure evil).

                                According to the Boeing website, the 777 has a "revenue payload capacity" of 112 tons, or about 102,000 kg.

                                With that sort of enormous carrying capacity, a Boeing 777 could be outfitted with elaborate, high-volume chemical spraying weapons, air-dropped biological weapons or of course a nuclear weapon capable of destroying an entire city. Technology also exists to remotely control large aircraft, and Iran in particular has already demonstrated its technical ability to seize control of U.S. military drones through a process of GPS-spoofing. In support of this feat, Russia just recently "electronically captured" another U.S. drone over Crimea.

                                Shockingly, the next time the world sees this aircraft may be when it deploys itself over a city like Tel Aviv and detonates a large nuclear weapon at altitude. The reason I deliberately choose Tel Aviv in this example is because there appears to be a possible link with Iran in all this, and the Iranian government leadership has reportedly said it wishes to see Israel wiped off the map. The elaborate nature of this aircraft piracy, if indeed this is the true explanation, also smacks of state-sponsored involvement. This is not the kind of operation that can be pulled off by a couple of yahoos trying to score some quick cash.

                                The fact that this aircraft was able to fly undetected for at least four hours after the transponder was turned off means the plane can very effectively be used as a "stealth" weapon of sorts, and it could theoretically be deployed over major cities across Europe, Asia, the Middle East or even North America.

                                Where is Flight 370 now? Pakistan, Iran both potentially in range of the landing
                                According to this Boeing web page, the 777 has a cruising speed of around Mach .84, or around 650 miles per hour.

                                If the aircraft cruised for four hours after the transponder was turned off, it could have flown nearly 2600 miles, putting it just within reach of Pakistan, and possibly even southeast Iran if it flew at a slightly higher speed and had sufficient fuel. The Iran Shahr Airport, located less than 100 miles from the border of Pakistan, is conceivably within range and sits at an altitude of around 2,000 meters. This airport has a runway length of 7,711 feet, and according to page 16 of this document on the Boeing website, the required runway length for landing a Boeing 777 is less than 7,711 feet as long as the runway is not wet. This is true even if the aircraft is fully loaded and flying at maximum weight.

                                The aircraft was actually designed to take advantage of shorter runways. Even Boeing itself says the 777 "uses a new semi-levered gear, which allows it to take off from fields with limited runway length."

                                Thus, Flight 370 could have conceivably and successfully landed in Iran. Remember, too, that the aircraft was "using airline flight corridors normally employed for routes to the Middle East and Europe," according to Reuters (link above).

                                This flight path, however, would have put it directly over India, and it is difficult to imagine the Indian government not noticing a Boeing 777 aircraft flying over its airspace without a transponder. Then again, the Malaysian government seems to have no idea where the plane went, either, and so we may be dealing with regional military incompetence on these matters, or possibly some amazing new stealth technology that was somehow deployed on the plane.

                                To help explain where this aircraft could have gone, I put together this flight range map, showing the possible locations where Flight 370 could have flown in the four hours after it disappeared from its intended flight path:

                                Notice that this range encompasses North Korea, Myanmar, Pakistan, Afghanistan and even part of Iran.

                                An interesting area of investigation in all this would be to find out how much fuel the aircraft was loaded with, and determining whether that fuel load could allow it to fly four or even five more hours.

                                Keep reading Natural News for more developments on this heart-wrenching mystery which increasingly looks to be a deliberate act of air piracy. Subscribe to my email list, below, if you'd like to be kept informed of new articles via email.

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