777 Crash and Fire at SFO

[Gabriel]

So here's the deal...I can't count the high, fast approaches I've done on MSFS...but I'm aiming at the TDZE and speed is decaying just right to cross the fence VERY close to a proper speed...It's a very fun exercise-and guess what:

1) There's this incredibly cool rocker switch by my thumb that I bump to get me more and more nose-up input as the speed decays from 250 kts towards 140 kts. So no column in the crotch like you mention.

Except he didn't use the incredibly cool rocker switch by your thumb. The last time the trim was touched was at 1500ft, when the plane was too fast above Vapp. All the slow down from "too fast" to "stall" along about 1 minute and a half was achieved pulling back on the yoke.

2) And here's the biggie...I sometimes wind up just a little bit short on speed and height and sometimes even stall into the approach lights. The decaying speed simply sneaks up on me.

Sure- beer was sometimes involved and neither the SA (nor the seriousness) was the same as in a real plane...but I compare that to a situation of where you've made thousands of landings and everything is going the right direction...it all LOOKS good, and you are a bit tired...

...sometimes it's that simple.

I 100% agree that it was crappy flying- but even good pilots sometimes screw up.

I've already conceded that this can happen, and added that it's still inexcusable every time. And by the way, how many "required flight crew" were there in your MSFS joyride? Because in this cockpit there were three.

[TeeVee]

Are you sure it's not the other way around in some cases?
I've seen lawyers at hospitals giving their business cards to everyone that came crying from a talk with the doctors.

In this high-profile cases, I can see big firms that live of commissions on liabilities for damages go out to hunt potential plaintiffs as soon as the event occurs, explaining them how much money they can make and how much they deserve it, and how they are the best lawyer they can contract to have it done. If not, you would not have one firm with 150 victims. The victims will hardly be so organized.



I think that the natural reaction of the victim will be to sue the airline, not the airplane manufacturer.
I bet that suing Boeing, Rolls Roys, the FAA and what not is the creativity of the lawyer, not the victim.

now, this is only a MODEL rule that is not binding on any lawyer. however, most states have adopted rules that ARE binding that follow these fairly closely.

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_7_3_direct_contact_with_prospective_clients.html

[3WE]

And by the way, how many "required flight crew" were there in your MSFS joyride? Because in this cockpit there were three.

Indeed asshat (just because)

[Evan]

Reasonably?!?!

Yes, MCM, it is reasonable to expect your pilots to make these mistakes if you fail to train them otherwise. They have a fine point.

So, this has gone from a few bad apples to an airline that can't accept responsibility and therefore cannot be trusted to make the changes necessary to prevent another occurrence. I could have conceivably considered Asiana a safe airline if they admitted fault, but by deflecting it they have proven to be UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED.

Now, we wait and see if the Korean CAA will also blame the aircraft. If so, I hope Korean airlines become banned in the US just as the Mexican ones were.

[Leftseat86]

I 100% agree that it was crappy flying- but even good pilots sometimes screw up.

Good pilots screw up sometimes, but look at the laundry list of errors made here on a beautiful sunny day with no weather, and it becomes pretty clear these guys can hardly be called pilots. Just awful flying, people like that should not be allowed to fly other people around period.

[TheKiecker]

Just testing out my new sigs.

[mawheatley]

Because in this cockpit there were three.

I would question that. In this cockpit there were 2 PNF's and a passenger!

[Gabriel]

I would question that. In this cockpit there were 2 PNF's and a passenger!

You know, there is a tendency in the last years to call the PNF (pilot not flying) a PM (pilot monitoring) instead, the idea being that it's better to say what he does rather than what he doesn't do.

In this case, I actually think that there were 3 PNF and 3 PNM.

[HalcyonDays]

You know, there is a tendency in the last years to call the PNF (pilot not flying) a PM (pilot monitoring) instead, the idea being that it's better do say what he does rather than what he doesn't do.

In this case, I actually think that there were 3 PNF and 3 PNM.

Not for the first time, Gabriel is totally spot on in one sentence. Bravo.

[Evan]

You know, there is a tendency in the last years to call the PNF (pilot not flying) a PM (pilot monitoring) instead, the idea being that it's better to say what he does rather than what he doesn't do.

In this case, I actually think that there were 3 PNF and 3 PNM.

I think the report will find one PNT and two PNSU

PNT: pilot not trained
PNSU: pilot not speaking up

[TeeVee]

at the risk of one again being politically incorrect...they were PWA

[Highkeas]

From today's AIAA newsletter:

NTSB To Hold Hearing On Asiana Crash.
The AP (5/ reported that the NTSB will hold a hearing to determine the probable cause of last year’s Asiana plane crash at San Francisco International Airport. According to the article, the NTSB announced yesterday that the hearing is scheduled to take place in Washington, DC on June 24.

The San Jose (CA) Mercury News (5/8, Nakaso) reported that once the probable cause for the crash is determined, the NTSB is expected to issue “recommendations to the FAA regarding pilots and flight crews and other safety issues.”

[3WE]

...the NTSB announced yesterday that the hearing is scheduled to take place in Washington, DC on June 24...

Well, it's June 24.

The automation is being mentioned as a distraction.

I guess it will be a contributing factor.

[HansPeter]

NTSB: Animation of Asiana Flight 214 accident sequence

NTSB today published a new video.

NTSB: Animation of Asiana Flight 214 accident sequence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MFPSfGoT1U

[HansPeter]

NTSB on Twitter:

NTSB #Asiana214 Report summary, Findings, Probable Cause & Recommendations http://go.usa.gov/9Q5j