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swiftair Md-80 missing

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  • #16
    a la flight of the phoenix...

    sad

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    • #17
      Black box found.

      PARIS -- French officials dispatched a military unit to secure the site in restive northern Mali where an Air Algerie plane crashed with the loss of 116 people.

      France's interior minister said Friday that terrorism cannot be excluded as a cause for the tragedy, though it was likely due to bad weather.

      French president Francois Hollande announced Friday that there were no survivors in the crash of the MD-83 aircraft, owned by Spanish company Swiftair and leased by Algeria's flagship carrier, which disappeared from radar less than an hour after it took off early Thursday from Burkina Faso's capital, Ouagadougou, for Algiers. The plane had requested permission to change course due to bad weather.

      Speaking after a crisis meeting, Hollande also announced that one of the aircraft's two black boxes has been found in the wreckage, in the Gossi region near the border with Burkina Faso. It is being taken to the northern Mali city of Gao.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
        ....or engines full of sand ? Remember...the pilot had supposedly asked for a route change to avoid a sandstorm.

        I can remember sitting out in the desert in Saudi Arabia when I worked there having a party with friends in beautiful weather with no hint of anything untoward when, within one or two minutes, we were hit by a huge sandstorm that forced us into shelter in our vehicles and took some of the paint off of some of them. One 4WD Chevy that was parked side on to the storm was turned on its side. I don't think I've ever experienced such weather violence before or since.
        Once again, the mystery is in the sudden disappearance. This leads one to speculate either a catastrophic event (i.e. MH 17) or an all-consuming struggle (i.e AF407). An intact impact rules out in- flight breakup. I dont see how engine failure alone could result in a high-energy crash with no distress call. But we know very little about the crash site at this point...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Evan View Post
          An intact impact rules out in- flight breakup. I dont see how engine failure alone could result in a high-energy crash with no distress call. But we know very little about the crash site at this point...
          A dual engine out should not cause a high energy crash, distress call or not.
          Especially in the MD-80 where the elevator and ailerons are mechanically/aerodynamically actuated (no hydraulics or electrics needed).

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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          • #20
            this is not a stall/spin or powerless attempted emergency landing, this is a high energy violent nose way down fast impact, so I am leaning less weather or engine failure and more flight control/structural failure or criminal act

            moving quickly in air

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            • #21
              Originally posted by orangehuggy View Post
              this is not a stall/spin or powerless attempted emergency landing, this is a high energy violent nose way down fast impact, so I am leaning less weather or engine failure and more flight control/structural failure or criminal act ]
              Reminds me somewhat of the Alaska Airlines in 2000 - would not have expected that problem ever to recur.

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              • #22
                Don't forget though that sandstorms often involve big time amounts of fast moving air. Add in sudden loss of spatial awareness and life suddenly gets very difficult.
                If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by HalcyonDays View Post
                  Reminds me somewhat of the Alaska Airlines in 2000 - would not have expected that problem ever to recur.
                  I can't say that didn't cross my mind.

                  Originally posted by orangehuggy
                  this is not a stall/spin or powerless attempted emergency landing, this is a high energy violent nose way down fast impact, so I am leaning less weather or engine failure and more flight control/structural failure or criminal act
                  High energy impact, but why nose-down?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Evan View Post

                    High energy impact, but why nose-down?
                    if it was nose up or nose level it would not be going as fast due to aerodynamics to cause such disintegration in my opinion. It could have been in a bank or even inverted as well as nose pointing down of course...
                    moving quickly in air

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                    • #25
                      AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                      Originally posted by orangehuggy
                      the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

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                      • #26
                        Crash site spotted by French Air Force Reaper Drone

                        Originally posted by ErwinS View Post
                        French forces from Mali (presumably the two figher acft sent on search) have discoverd the wreck of AH5017.
                        Not quite so.

                        Search and Rescue was launched Thursday July 24 at 11:30 French time (0930Z).

                        It involved initially two Niamey (Niger) based French Air Force Mirage 2000D which remained aloft for 6:30 hours, thanks to air-refueling. Their area of ​​research was on the Gao -Tessalit axis.


                        Then an EADS/IAI Medium Altitude Long Endurance Drone Harfang and a transport aircraft Casa CN235 intervened until nightfall.


                        A French Air Force MQ9 Reaper Drone was later assigned to check on intelligence collected from local population and the various authorities of the countries concerned. Shortly before midnight, nearly 24 hours after AH5017 disappearance from radar screens, the Reaper spotted what appeared to be the crash site in the area of Gossi (northeast of Mali).

                        Despite bad weather conditions, two helicopters (one EC665 Tiger and a AS532 Cougar) were immediately dispatched and confirmed crash site location at 1:42 am French Time.

                        Two more helicopters carrying twenty men on board, including a policeman and a doctor, were quickly dispatched. A convoy of thirty vehicles and more than a hundred
                        men left Gao at 3:00 am and reached the scene at sunrise, along with Malian military.

                        http://www.lopinion.fr/blog/secret-d...e-reaper-14784

                        I wonder whether it is the first occurence of military drones being used / given credit for finding crash site of a civilian airliner.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                          A dual engine out should not cause a high energy crash, distress call or not.
                          Especially in the MD-80 where the elevator and ailerons are mechanically/aerodynamically actuated (no hydraulics or electrics needed).
                          Tell you what though...I'm thinking a "simple" dual engine failure is extremely likely to result in a radio call.

                          And add in reports that these particular storms (while clearly diversion-worthy) have also been described as "not especially violent".

                          Bottom line would be to speculate that something broke- but it could be many things besides a jack screw too.
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                            Tell you what though...I'm thinking a "simple" dual engine failure is extremely likely to result in a radio call.
                            I'm beginning to think pilots won't tend to make a distress call until they have determined what the the general problem is. So, if you are falling clear out of the sky despite pulling up relentlessly the whole time—what could possibly be the problem here?—they will continue to pull up in different ways and monkey with the thrust and wait for some helpful advice on the EICAS but find no reason for a distress call until the problem reveals itself.

                            Engine failure is obvious. Loss of airspeeds is not even worth reporting. Stickshaker is probably best kept to yourself. Confounding negative vertical speed with the thrust firewalled is, well, not easy to put into words.

                            Has any aircraft EVER made a distress call while stalled? If they never recover, i expect you'd never hear about it from the pilots.

                            If they lost the jackscrew, they would probably have called that one in. Alaska did.

                            I also thought about that rarest of rare phenomena... positive lightning... but that would involve midair destruction.

                            Do we know if ALL the wreckage is concentrated on that one spot, or if other wreckage might exist further afield, a wing for instance...?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Evan with some edits
                              ...pilots won't tend to make a distress call... if you are falling clear out of the sky...
                              "Falling" is the magic word. I kind of doubt I'd radio in...

                              Conversely, the Southern Airways hail/rain/surge/tornado-warning-thunderstorm/dual engine flame out- the plane continued to fly (glide) just fine and there was much radio traffic afterwards...

                              ...but they were not falling out of the sky, 'out of control' with God-know's-what heavy or perhaps absent G-forces with no reasonable idea of what to do next...
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Evan View Post
                                .................

                                High energy impact, but why nose-down?

                                ValuJet 592 crashed nose down the result of an on-board fire.

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