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Gulfstream IV jet ran off a runway while taking off

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  • #16
    The co-pilot had a bad accident in another airplane several years ago, and his memory has been affected after it. He had lapse of memory very often, I got this information from another site.
    If this is true, how come he passed the Medical? and I wonder if he was flying the aircraft?
    A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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    • #17
      More info: http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...rUL/story.html

      The NTSB is saying the aircraft reached 165 knots, presumably without becoming airborne, before attempting to stop with brakes and thrust reversers (although in the photos I've seen the reversers appear not to be deployed?).

      Perhaps a flap or trim setting problem?

      I live near Hanscom and actually work about 2 miles from the field and one thing I can say is weather should not have been a factor. Temperatures were moderate (around 50F) and there was no significant precip that night.

      Edit: another article I found with a bit more info: http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/06/0...ord-jet-crash/
      Be alert! America needs more lerts.

      Eric Law

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      • #18
        Originally posted by TheKiecker View Post
        Word on the street is : " this clown show never pulled back. They have front wheel tracks all over the lawn . " From a Marathon First Respondah Heewoe .
        Well I'm glad for that wonderfully enlightened insight.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
          Seven people died here.....and the best you can do is make smartarse comments !
          You of course have all the information to hand to be able to confirm that there is no excuse here. I would assume that the NTSB are even now forming a orderly queue at your front door !

          Moronic idiot.
          Exactly. There are a lot of reasons why an aborted take-off or other can go wrong. Having absolutely no idea yet what actually occurred, assuming that someone just "forgot to pull up" is absolutely ridiculous.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by elaw View Post
            The NTSB is saying the aircraft reached 165 knots, presumably without becoming airborne...
            Since that is well beyond Vr, either they didn't rotate (unlikely), they couldn't lift off or they experienced some problem after V1 that was considered more dangerous in flight than a late RTO. Latest reports indicate comments after the 'rotate' call out indicating a flight control problem, so I'm guessing it was the latter scenario. But then why such speed beyond Vr (beyond V2 even)??? That would seem to suggest a overweight aircraft...

            Or an in-ground-effect stall...

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            • #21
              Or an in-ground-effect stall...
              A witness in the airport said that they neved lifted off.

              Originally posted by Evan View Post
              Since that is well beyond Vr, either they didn't rotate (unlikely), they couldn't lift off or they experienced some problem after V1 that was considered more dangerous in flight than a late RTO.
              In hindsight, nothing could have been more dangerous than what it was. Not for the persons on the plane at least.

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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              • #22
                This lack of rotation is quite strange. From what I've seen- you generally still rotate when overweight but liftoff doesn't happen- Edit...you still rotate AND may even take flight in ground effect, but fail to climb- as opposed to keeping all three sets of wheels on the ground.

                Also folks generally make an attempt to pull up whenever they run off the end.

                I guess I could see some gross elevator failure combined with " disbelief brain lock" as an inconceivable never before experience develops and they continue thinking the plane will go airborne like it always did.

                It's so strange that I half defend kicker for stating what it almost looks like even though that's incomprehensible too.
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                • #23
                  NTSB now reporting that the data recorders show the pilots tried to abort the takeoff by deploying thrust reversers and applying wheel brakes.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                    This lack of rotation is quite strange. From what I've seen- you generally still rotate when overweight but liftoff doesn't happen

                    Also folks generally make an attempt to pull up whenever they run off the end.

                    I guess I could see some gross elevator failure combined with " disbelief brain lock" as an inconceivable never before experience develops and they continue thinking the plane will go airborne like it always did.

                    It's so strange that I half defend kicker for stating what it almost looks like even though that's incomprehensible too.
                    If anything this is a reminder that when the sh*t hits the fan on takeoff things happen VERY quickly. Scary stuff. This reminds me a bit of the Kalitta crash in Brussels.

                    It should be noted that runway 11 has a 1039ft long stopway past the end:



                    Oops...wrong runway attached, here is the end of Runway 11:

                    Screen shot 2014-06-04 at 1.45.25 AM

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                      " disbelief brain lock"
                      Adding that to the JP diagnostic vocabulary.

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                      • #26
                        From the NTSB interim press release. (My bold highlight)....

                        The pilots of a private jet that crashed near Boston over the weekend reported a control problem just before the plane ran off the runway and exploded in flames, according to investigators who described the cockpit voice recorder transcript Tuesday.

                        The twin-engine Gulfstream IV jet crashed Saturday night with Philadelphia Inquirer co-owner Lewis Katz and six others aboard while trying to take off from Hanscom Field in Bedford, Mass.

                        But the aircraft didn’t leave the ground before running off the end of the runway, said Luke Schiada, senior air safety investigator for the National Transportation Safety Board.

                        Schiada said preliminary information from the cockpit recorder and the flight data recorder showed that during the takeoff attempt, the pilots called out 80 knots and V1 — the minimum speed necessary for takeoff. Then, as the aircraft accelerated to 165 knots, the recorder captured comments about "aircraft control," Schiada said. The flight data showed that the thrust reversers were deployed and pressure rose in the wheel brakes, he said.

                        It wasn’t enough. The aircraft, still traveling at 100 knots, hurtled 2,000 feet off the end of the runway, plunged into a gully and burst into flames. The flight data recorder’s data ended seven seconds after the thrust reversers were deployed, Schiada said.

                        The crash killed Katz, who once owned the NBA’s New Jersey Nets and the NHL’s New Jersey Devils, and six other people who were traveling with him to Atlantic City International Airport in New Jersey.

                        Schiada said that the engines had been removed from the crash scene but that other key parts of the aircraft remained there.

                        He stressed that the information released Tuesday was preliminary and that investigators would create a complete transcript of all audio communication by the flight crew and of any sounds in the background.
                        Not much more to say other than to wait for the real experts to release their final report.
                        If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
                          NTSB now reporting that the data recorders show the pilots tried to abort the takeoff by deploying thrust reversers and applying wheel brakes.
                          http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...m-ntsb-n121796
                          .

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                          • #28
                            Strange. On the pictures of the wreckage the reversers are not deployed.
                            “The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire.”

                            Erwin

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                            • #29
                              Stupid question here...

                              ...these things don't have control locks, do they?
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                                Stupid question here...

                                ...these things don't have control locks, do they?
                                That was my thought too. Didn't ask it here because it was a stupid question

                                I *think* that these beasts have hydraulic controls.
                                And I *think* that these controls tend not to have gust locks because they cannot move due to external forces as long as there is hydro fluid in the actuators.

                                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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