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Recent Icelandic Volcanic Eruption Shuts down UK Airspace

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  • Volcanic ash is NASTY. It is one of the biggest threats airborne to an aircraft. The fact that some flights proceed ok is irrelivant.
    Brilliant. As usual. Hyperbole is like "checkmate".

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    • Originally posted by MCM View Post
      Overreact is exactly what they should have done.

      Volcanic ash is NASTY. It is one of the biggest threats airborne to an aircraft. The fact that some flights proceed ok is irrelivant.

      There has been, really, quite little study into volcanic ash and how to mitigate its effects. I would far rather all the airspace was closed than to allow aircraft to fly through and become affected.

      You must also remember how busy this airspace is. It'd only take a handful of planes to start requiring diversion and the whole system would fall apart.

      The answer is - don't mess with volcanic ash!
      MCM - Are you piloting aircraft that have flown through the ash? I'm wondering if the airlines are following the manufacturers advice to conduct more frequent engine inspections on a/c that are operating in this stuff. I'm concerned that the unnoticed damage this ash could cause will result in engine failures weeks or months down the road.

      The engine manufacturers have stated unequivocally not to operate where volcanic ash can enter the engines. Where do you as a pilot stand between the opposing policies of the operators and that of the manufacturers?

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      • Originally posted by Evan View Post
        MCM - Are you piloting aircraft that have flown through the ash? I'm wondering if the airlines are following the manufacturers advice to conduct more frequent engine inspections on a/c that are operating in this stuff. I'm concerned that the unnoticed damage this ash could cause will result in engine failures weeks or months down the road.

        The engine manufacturers have stated unequivocally not to operate where volcanic ash can enter the engines. Where do you as a pilot stand between the opposing policies of the operators and that of the manufacturers?
        If I was an operator I would investigate using older equipment on routes where flying through ash is a possibility. I agree that ash damage may be cumulative and I expect that equipment used on North Atlantic/European routes will be checked out more thoroughly. Maybe windows give a clue as to damage (heck cars where I live get sand blasted occasionally - I was surprised to find out how low cost it was to replace my sand blasted auto windshield).

        Volcanic eruptions occur in Iceland relatively often - the problem this time was that a couple of factors coincided to disrupt air travel; the wind pattern was aimed at mid-latitude Europe and the volcano was reportedly below a ice cap or glacier.

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        • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
          WHAT ! You were forced to take holiday for something you had no control over and you couldn't go anywhere anyway because there were no flights.

          You need to talk to your union reps damn quick.
          O yeah they are a lot of help, they are in bed with management like any other union is..... Unions suck big time.

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          • Find this interesting in the context of developing knowledge and procedures for dealing with volcanic ash:

            The overall exposure of aviation to potential volcanic-ash hazards from volcanoes in the Northern Mariana Islands is significant. The nine active sub-aerial volcanoes in the region are upwind of frequently used commercial and military air routes that link Saipan and Guam to Asia and the rest of the Pacific Rim. Air routes connecting northeast Asia to Australia, Indonesia, Philippines and New Zealand also are vulnerable to ash hazards from eruptions of Northern Mariana volcanoes.
            http://www.ofcm.gov/p35-nvaopa/regio...%206.29.09.pdf

            Turns out that US agencies have been focused and working the problem for years. Part of it is the creating of monitoring and warnings about volcanic activity in American territory or possessions.

            I wonder if NTSB or FAA have been developing standards since this effort has created interagency entities for working on the the safety issue.

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            • Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
              Source and full story.
              Inverness, Wick, Kirkwall and Stornoway airports will all be closed until at least 1pm today because of a high density cloud of ash overhead.
              I'm not saying this particular story is bogus but many UK newspapers are now tabloids and exagerate stories.

              This last several days I have been relying on the BBC and UK Met Office sites for info.

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              • Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                I put forth to you that probably; military aircraft are being used to test where the boundaries are to make it more safe for commercial aircraft. So even though this is a peaceful effort the military is sacrificing its aircraft and risking their own lives for the safety of the public.

                The fact is that apparently the military of many countries is being used as guinea pigs to keep commercial aircraft safe.

                I find it quite offensive that so many people trash the military and its personnel. The military and it's people often screw up and are to blame for a lot of things; but they also do a lot of good.
                O do me a favour.....

                Are you serious? are you for real? did you really meant all that stuff about the mil? Surely a no fly zone means just that - NO FLY. So why would someone be stupid enough to even think about taking a plane up there, let alone take one up there.

                This would be like a building burning where the police cordon the area off and tell everyone not to enter but some bright spark decided to enter from the rear and then a few days later says I did for the public because they needed someone to test the building to see if it would collaspe...

                If what you say is correct I think some heads need to roll and from the top as well. That's my money they are playing with.

                No offence but I hope you are wrong about this one.

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                • Hmmm...

                  Originally posted by Aviation Herald
                  A British Airways Boeing 777-200, registration G-VIIK performing flight BA-93 from London Heathrow,EN (UK) to Toronto,ON (Canada), was on approach to Toronto when the crew declared PAN reporting they had to shut down an engine. The airplane continued to runway 15L for a safe landing.

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                  • After my citation of an article of "Der Spiegel" in th ethread about AF447, here's now another one....

                    I don't know whether it will ever be available in english, but here's the link: http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/t...693801,00.html

                    Short summary:

                    Lufthansa Pilots Criticise Visual Flights in Ash Chaos

                    [...]

                    The situation was serious on April 20, when a rain front with low clouds forced aircraft to fly long distances at low altitude. Spiegel reconstructs in its latest issue three of a total of several dozen of such flights using radar data. Among otheres, there is LH008 FRA-HAM. North of Lake Steinhude, the A321 sank from 3000ft to 1800ft. A pilot seated in the rear cabin said: The wind generators appeared rather large, so I had my doubts about minimum altitude.

                    Even south of the river Elbe, a first officer whose name is known to the Spiegel, noted: I was not amused when a small plane appeared below us.

                    [...]

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                    • All I know is - I work in airfreight - and this whole volcanic ash thing is a huge pain in the arse. I ship alot of AOGs, and mostly to European destinations - I'm on constant ash-watch so I can inform the AOG clients and keep my employees aprised of who is coming in & going back out/who isn't/how we can route around the ash.

                      Major pain in the rear, seriously!

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                      • Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
                        As usual so-called secret information that is made available publicly should be taken with a grain of salt; much as unnamed sources and virtually anything from the media. haha

                        Though I don't know if this alleged memo is authentic, the science behind the alleged leak seems to be realistic though not in full context. I feel the threat is real but I think it should be kept in perspective and not trigger paranoia amongst passengers.
                        I suspect this could be the case in some situations - a lot probably depends on the ash density, size, composition, along with other factors.

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