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Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

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  • Originally posted by Evan View Post
    Just off the cuff, I can see it working if all pilots are put on a medical database upon receiving their ATPL. When seeing a doctor, the doctor would be alerted that the patient is a pilot and would have the responsibility to electronically report any relevant condition back into that database, while the operator would have the responsibility of monitoring it. I could see this working in Germany. I can see it falling apart through kneejerk Congressional nonsense in America. I can't see it working at all in someplace like Yemen. But why not start with the EU?

    Of course, it would dissuade a 'bad' pilot from seeking medical care or they might seek it anonymously. This might be mitigated by a supportive operator policy that emphasizes retaining pilots through treatment rather than one that throws them off for illness.

    Alas, there is no obvious solution for dishonesty.
    Exactly
    It doesn't matter which clinical/psychological condition it was.
    It could be a simple eye infection that could easily be treated in a ten-day course of eye drops antibiotics that could not threaten his carreer
    He was not supposed to be on duty flying, whatever medical reason we are talking about

    Comment


    • Originally posted by phoneman View Post
      Because a suicidal person doesn't care about their life and consequently they don't care about anyone else's!
      No...

      In many cases the person does care and perceives (correctly) that they become more famous by taking a plane load of folks with them.

      It's very sad but our pilot is indeed now famous and it could very well be a motivation here.
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • i dont think the answer is going to lie in reporting, requiring pilots to waive medical confidentiality, or any other similar program.

        there is going to be a third person, as a cabin crew in the mix. there is going to be a change to the locking procedure/system.

        and one day, there is going to be a remote control takeover. spooks fly sophisticated drones over pakistan from their desks in langley. it can be done, and it will be done. sooner than you think.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Brainsys View Post
          Latest news is that the sick note was for an eye defect. That is obviously career threatening and presumably why it didn't get to LH/GW. If this is true then the sick note issue didn't kill 150 (it wasn't 'cos he couldn't see the mountain or door lock) - it was possibly the reaction to the sick note.

          Enough to mightily depress a sane pilot methinks. Certainly enough to push a wobbly one over the edge.
          He was taking anti-depressants found in his apartment to treat his illness. Die Welt, a German newspaper, cited an unidentified senior investigator who said Lubitz suffered from a severe "psychosomatic illness" and German police seized prescription drugs that treat the condition. Lubitz suffered from a "severe subjective burnout syndrome" and from severe depression, the source told Die Welt.

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          • Originally posted by phoneman View Post
            Because a suicidal person doesn't care about their life and consequently they don't care about anyone else's!
            That's not true in general.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
              ...and one day, there is going to be a remote control takeover. spooks fly sophisticated drones over pakistan from their desks in langley. it can be done, and it will be done. sooner than you think.


              Ohhh Gabriel???????

              It will be interesting if this third crew member thing goes anywhere, or if the FA swap out becomes more universal...

              Still, I think a few seconds with only one person with a steering wheel available and a good negative G push over and that backup person is of no value.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                one day, there is going to be a remote control takeover. spooks fly sophisticated drones over pakistan from their desks in langley. it can be done, and it will be done. sooner than you think.
                It's more complicated than you think.

                Drones are designed from scratch with a remote pilot in mind.
                Airliners are designed from scratch with the pilot inside.
                None is designed with a malicious pilot inside the plane in mind.

                A new type perhaps could be designed with that in mind. Current types, there are so many systems that would need to be changed...

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                  :It will be interesting if this third crew member thing goes anywhere, or if the FA swap out becomes more universal...

                  Still, I think a few seconds with only one person with a steering wheel available and a good negative G push over and that backup person is of no value.
                  I agree 100% with you on this one. If there is someone committed to taking over the aircraft already in the seat, a flight attendant is going to be a minor annoyance at best.

                  It is time for all of the world airlines to adopt the El Al approach. As much as it is already a pain in the ass with TSA and security, they have a rigorous screening procedure. And, there is an armed security agent or two on every flight.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                    It is time for all of the world airlines to adopt the El Al approach. As much as it is already a pain in the ass with TSA and security, they have a rigorous screening procedure.
                    You mean pre-boarding screening?

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Observer View Post
                      ..........

                      Sorry to disagree.
                      1) every doctor (including company doctors) are subjected to patient-doctor-confidentiality
                      ...............
                      Not in all US states; in some a doctor can report a patient to the Department of Motor Vehicles if he believes the patient can be a danger to himself and other on the highway.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                        It's more complicated than you think.

                        Drones are designed from scratch with a remote pilot in mind.
                        Airliners are designed from scratch with the pilot inside.
                        None is designed with a malicious pilot inside the plane in mind.

                        A new type perhaps could be designed with that in mind. Current types, there are so many systems that would need to be changed...
                        Aircraft can be modified to fly without pilots sitting in the aircraft; it has been done with a 707 and a 727, and aging military fighter aircraft are modified for use as targets (in the latter case my former company proposed putting the control electronics on the ejection seat so that they could be recovered and reused - proposal was unsuccessful due to "lack of funds").
                        For example see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...war-games.html

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                          You mean pre-boarding screening?
                          You have to experience to appreciate it! It make the US TSA screening like a walk in the park.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                            You have to experience to appreciate it! It make the US TSA screening like a walk in the park.
                            But that screening wouldn't have stopped a suicidal pilot with a locked door would it, unless perhaps the armed onboard agent replaces a pilot who leaves the flight deck.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
                              Aircraft can be modified to fly without pilots sitting in the aircraft; it has been done:..
                              I don't think Gabe means it CAN'T be done...

                              It's more like should it be done and do we really really want it done, would it introduce new problems, and would it be prohibitively expensive and if it would be better to start with new aircraft designs...
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                                You have to experience to appreciate it! It make the US TSA screening like a walk in the park.
                                But I don't see how that would stop the rogue pilot. Neither screening the pax nor the armed guard.

                                Oh, and I experienced it. Flew with El Al 4 times. In one occasion I was with my brother and we were in the line, short of being screened, an El Al security guard and requested our passports and asked us a few questions. Then he returned us our passports but crossed, and told us that the person who would screen un was in training and asked show our "mixed" passport. She didn't catch it.

                                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                                Comment

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