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  • #16
    Originally posted by YYZPICS
    Another question, usually what is the decision height?
    A go-around in a Cat IIIB approach will usually result in a touchdown with the minima at about 20'RA!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by mikecweb
      I just don't find them useful. Not yet at least. Grant it we fly approaches pretty fast I guess maybe in the larger jets they become more useful. I know most of the Lear guys we have here don't like them either. Maybe just a culture thing here, who knows.
      That could be because of the usefulness, or uselessness of the flight director itself.

      The first airplane I flew that had one was the Sabreliner. Had the delta type. I didn't like at first either, but ended up really appreciating it after a few hours in the airplane.

      The Dash has the two bar Boeing type of FD. I absolutely hated the thing when I first got in the sim. After realizing what it could do and learning how to fly the thing, I fell in love with it.

      It makes approaches as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. That being said, there are times when I'll cancel the thing and fly raw data.

      Having a TCS button to go along with the FD goes a long way towards making you appreciate it more.
      Bite me Airways.....

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      • #18
        Originally posted by LRJet Guy
        The Dash has the two bar Boeing type of FD. I absolutely hated the thing when I first got in the sim. After realizing what it could do and learning how to fly the thing, I fell in love with it.
        Every F/D I had used in aviation was a single cue V-Bar type up until I got hired to fly the 727. The simulator we used was the Delta 727 sim in Atlanta. Thier sim was a dual cue crosshair type Sperry system. I thought I was screwed. It definately takes some getting used to. I even had to adjust to the fact I was looking at a rolling ball, as opposed to a flat card. But after awhile I found the dual cue F/D are a bit more precise and I got very used to it and did fine in training. (Well hell, I passed)

        Then I got out on the line and all we have are Collins FD-109's and 108's! So the whole fleet has the V-Bars! So I had to readjust again, but that was the easy part. I'm just glad I've had exposure to both now.
        Anybody can fly a round airplane....

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mikecweb
          I just don't find them useful. Not yet at least. Grant it we fly approaches pretty fast I guess maybe in the larger jets they become more useful. I know most of the Lear guys we have here don't like them either. Maybe just a culture thing here, who knows.
          Just alleviate confusion later on, I'd reccomend just using one every now and then, just to keep your skills sharp on it. So when you're in a bind flying a turbulent approach to mins you can have it there to help.

          At my carrier we rarely use F/D's too. Our's probably have significantly less functionality than what you have on the Van. Our FD-108's that are on our ex-AA airplanes have a turn knob on the lower right corner of the insturment where you can select HDG, V/L, GS, or OFF. Thats it. They don't even have a pitch command. So they're basically worthless unless capturing a glideslope. The 109's are a bit better, with a pitch knob where you can manually set a pitch attitude or hit a ALT Hold switch.

          So generally from takeoff to the final vector, everything is raw data.

          Compare that to the CRJ where the only time you turned off the F/D was on a visual approach (If you so choose) or when descending below MDA on a non-prescision approach. Of course it had lots of funtionality.

          So my suggestion is just to keep it handy for when you need it. It's a great tool.
          Anybody can fly a round airplane....

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          • #20
            Originally posted by N9103M
            Just alleviate confusion later on, I'd reccomend just using one every now and then, just to keep your skills sharp on it. So when you're in a bind flying a turbulent approach to mins you can have it there to help.

            At my carrier we rarely use F/D's too. Our's probably have significantly less functionality than what you have on the Van. Our FD-108's that are on our ex-AA airplanes have a turn knob on the lower right corner of the insturment where you can select HDG, V/L, GS, or OFF. Thats it. They don't even have a pitch command. So they're basically worthless unless capturing a glideslope. The 109's are a bit better, with a pitch knob where you can manually set a pitch attitude or hit a ALT Hold switch.

            So generally from takeoff to the final vector, everything is raw data.

            Compare that to the CRJ where the only time you turned off the F/D was on a visual approach (If you so choose) or when descending below MDA on a non-prescision approach. Of course it had lots of funtionality.

            So my suggestion is just to keep it handy for when you need it. It's a great tool.
            That honestly makes me feel alot better. I think its a good tool but the precision just isn't there at least on the ones we have. I see it as definetly not something to rely on, but just to have in it your bag to help with situational awareness. Even though I haven't been in it that long I've had a few nights where the last leg always has to have that approach down to minimums and its nice to have all the help you can get to get home.
            If its not too much trouble if you have any pictures laying around of the two types you described could you throw those on here.
            Try to catch me flyin dirty...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mikecweb
              If its not too much trouble if you have any pictures laying around of the two types you described could you throw those on here.
              This is the FD-109, note the F/D Control Panel on the right side of the pedestal the the lower right of the radar. You can see the F/D in view on the ADI.

              [photoid=5819923]

              This is the FD-108, as said, much less functionality, and you can see the controls are on the ADI itself.

              [photoid=118268]

              And here is the Sperry Dual Cue (Chrosshair) system I referred to on the Delta airplanes. The control panel is off to the side, but there is a pitch command knob on the instrument

              [photoid=64613]
              Anybody can fly a round airplane....

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