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ANA 737-700 close call on Sept 6 2011

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  • ANA 737-700 close call on Sept 6 2011

    Latest breaking news articles, photos, video, blogs, reviews, analysis, opinion and reader comment from New Zealand and around the World - NZ Herald
    AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

    Originally posted by orangehuggy
    the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

  • #2
    The crew and passengers were said to be "shaken, not stirred" .. ??
    Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

    Comment


    • #3
      i'm wondering what "button" would cause this.

      i suspect this would not have occurred in an airbus....

      Comment


      • #4
        If all parts of this story are true it beggars belief that a single button could cause such mayhem with two qualified pilots in the cockpit. More to this story perhaps. Sounds more like rudder actuator problems rearing their ugly head again (not saying that's the case here but the severe rolling is very reminiscent of previous cases). If it is just a badly placed button, someone in Boeing needs their ass booted out the nearest door.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
          i'm wondering what "button" would cause this.
          Reportedly the FO wrongly pressed the rudder trim button in place of the cockpit door unlock button when the captain was returning from the lav.

          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Thurian View Post
            If all parts of this story are true it beggars belief that a single button could cause such mayhem with two qualified pilots in the cockpit.
            There was "only" one qualified pilot in the cockpit.

            And believe me that there are a lot of instances where one single wrong movement can bring a plane down. Try for example pushing down hard, or exending the spoilers, or raising the landing gear, or stowing flaps and slats, seconds before touchdown. Try for example advancing the throtles with the terminal in forn of you, or with an airplane taking off in the runway in front of you. Or forget to retard one or more thrust after touching down with the AT still trying to hold the speed. And I'm talking about things that did happen (in some cases, luckily not at a so critical moment, in some cases, with tragic outcomes).

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

            Comment


            • #7
              Sounds completely plausible to me.

              Both switches require rotating, and in the case of the door, you have to hold it in the rotated position until the person opens the door. Hold the rudder trim in the rotated position long enough, and you get a jet upset.

              Its quite an unusual mistake to make, however I've seen and heard of bigger ones than that made.

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              • #8
                But not much bigger would be heard in the first person would they?
                Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ooohhhhh, in that case, let's sue boeing for making the two knobs so similar that it was a virtual guarantee that some JACKASS would confuse the two.

                    yeah, i'm armchair piloting on this one but are you friggin kidding me?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                      ooohhhhh, in that case, let's sue boeing for making the two knobs so similar that it was a virtual guarantee that some JACKASS would confuse the two.

                      yeah, i'm armchair piloting on this one but are you friggin kidding me?
                      What seems strange is that those knobs are not even the same. Is it that realistic that somebody with that amount of experience would confuse the two? I mean, if I'm in that position I surely wouldn't be cavalier about confusing one knob which opens a door and another that affects the rudder trim. They were likely on AP right? so there's no excuse (to me) not to look at what you're actually turning.

                      Somebody correct me if I"m wrong. IIRC, it was the FO so he would have reached somewhat behind him with his left hand (given he would have been in right seat).

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                      • #12
                        Photo above: As the two knobs are completely different in size and shape and have very different tactile surroundings it seems incredible that a pilot could grab and turn the wrong one without knowing it, which makes the given explanation seem pretty odd.

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                        • #13
                          here is what my friend, a 737 pilot had to say:

                          "As you can see, the rudder trim knob is just to the right of center at the bottom, while the door knob is in the very corner at the bottom. You've got to be a complete asshole to get those wrong. Not only are the size and shape different, but they move differently in terms of the feel of what happens when you move them.

                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcdee6174/5990353245/"

                          hopefully the co-pilot has been terminated from his flying position...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MCM View Post
                            Sounds completely plausible to me.

                            Both switches require rotating, and in the case of the door, you have to hold it in the rotated position until the person opens the door. Hold the rudder trim in the rotated position long enough, and you get a jet upset.

                            Its quite an unusual mistake to make, however I've seen and heard of bigger ones than that made.
                            hey MCM, you know i respect your opinion but after discussing this incident with a 737 pilot, i'm convinced it is not so easy a mistake to have made. not to mention that this guy should have had a clue when he felt the aircraft starting to yaw and buck a bit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                              hey MCM, you know i respect your opinion but after discussing this incident with a 737 pilot, i'm convinced it is not so easy a mistake to have made. not to mention that this guy should have had a clue when he felt the aircraft starting to yaw and buck a bit.
                              Yaw is hard to "feel", especially a slowly increasing yaw as the one you'd have with smooth increasing ammounts of rudder trim.

                              Also roll is hard to feel, and roll would not have started until the autopilot could not keep with the yaw-induced roll tendency and gave up, and then bang!

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                              Comment

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