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  • Flight data recorder recovered!

    Indonesian divers have retrieved the flight data recorder of crashed AirAsia Flight QZ8501, say officials.

    The head of Indonesia's search and rescue agency, Bambang Soelistyo, said teams were still looking for the second device, its cockpit voice recorder.

    AirAsia flight QZ8501 disappeared in bad weather on 28 December with 162 people on board.

    The aircraft was flying from Surabaya in Indonesia to Singapore and is lying 30m (98ft) deep in the Java Sea.

    Dozens of bodies have been recovered but most of the victims are believed to still be inside the fuselage, which has not yet been found.

    It is hoped that the recovery of the flight data recorder will help investigators find out what happened to the plane during what should have been a brief flight.
    Speaking in Jakarta, Bambang Soelistyo told reporters: "I received information from the National Transport Safety Committee chief that at 07:11 AM (00:11 GMT), we succeeded in bringing up part of the black box that we call the flight data recorder."

    "What we are still trying to find is the cockpit voice recorder."
    Divers have retrieved the flight data recorder from AirAsia flight QZ8501, which could help explain why it crashed into the Java Sea.

    Comment


    • Supriyadi, operations co-ordinator for Indonesia's search and rescue agency, said that based on initial analysis of the wreckage, the plane could have "exploded" upon landing on the water. "The cabin was pressurised and before the pressure of the cabin could be adjusted, it went down - boom. That explosion was heard in the area," he was quoted as saying by AFP news agency.

      I worry about the people in charge of this mess.

      Comment


      • Sounds like the old DeHaviland Comet test. I think when it exploded in a pool they realized they had a hull issue. This is a crash however not an in flight faiilure.
        Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Evan View Post
          I worry about the people in charge of this mess.
          me too. they should've hired the expert on ALL matters related to aviation, aviation, safety, aviation policy, aviation politics, aviation finances, and national finances.

          i think his name is evan....

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Evan View Post
            Can we agree never to use the words "coffin corner" again in a thread about passenger jets?
            No.

            At airliner cruise altitudes, the difference between stall and overspeed is small enough that crews maintain awareness of those limits and may even make appropriate speed adjustments.

            At coffin corner is black and white. Near coffin corner (where airliners sometimes operate) is one of those gray areas that challenges you.

            This concept is behind one of the more valid AF theories: "Oh crap, no airspeed, but I pull up relentlessly, the Airbus FBW logic will keep me from stalling AND I sure as hell won't overspeed." (I know, reckless, cowboy mentality based on logic.)
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • 3WE, just put the gear out to stop overspeed right?

              Just kidding, DC-3 logic does not apply.

              You hear coffin corner and it sure gets your attention and I doubt if they go up and do stall recovery demos do they and getting a pilots attention would be lost if it was some fancy techno-correct term. Best thing to put a guy to sleep is going overly technical ..KISS.
              Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                No.

                At airliner cruise altitudes, the difference between stall and overspeed is small enough that crews maintain awareness of those limits and may even make appropriate speed adjustments.

                At coffin corner is black and white. Near coffin corner (where airliners sometimes operate) is one of those gray areas that challenges you.

                This concept is behind one of the more valid AF theories: "Oh crap, no airspeed, but I pull up relentlessly, the Airbus FBW logic will keep me from stalling AND I sure as hell won't overspeed." (I know, reckless, cowboy mentality based on logic.)
                The Mmo of the A320 is M 0.82, which at its ceiling of 39000ft is a TAS of 470 kts and a CAS of 255 kts.
                The stall speed of the A320 is in the order of the CAS 180kts, what is a TAS of 342 kts or M 0.6

                So your small enough coffin corner margin is:
                M 0.22
                75 KCAS
                128 KTAS (this is the "true" difference)

                Now, again...

                WHAT
                COFFIN
                CORNER
                ???????


                (The coffin corner disappeared from the commercial aviation world the day that the supercritical airfoils appeared)

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple Stupid.....for those that don't know.

                  Another one to remember.... "Put crap in....Get crap out".

                  Applies to computer useage....of which there are many in aircraft !

                  Why am I hearing "Click Click....Click Click. Autopilot off, auto throttle off"

                  During my extensive 18hrs flight training in the Cherokee 140 my instructor once commented "if you were previously trimmed and powerset for level flight and you get into trouble due to weather it's always worth trying letting go of everything if you have the altitude and see if it sorts itself out". Words to that effect anyway. Never did try it but it kinda makes sense.
                  If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    Catastrophically? Nah. The airplane can be recovered.
                    Now, at 350 kts TAS (as apparently this plane could have been going according to some radar data) every 30kts of updraft will increase the AoA in 5 degrees. 5 degrees can very well be the difference between not stalled and fully stalled, especially if you are flying at 350 kts TAS at 36000ft which should be a quite slow airspeed and hence a quite high angle of attack to begin with.
                    Yes, and that situation seems somewhat abnormal to begin with. Maybe the increase in altitude is actually the result of an updraft?

                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    Not possible. An strong, violet, sudden updraft pushes the airplane up and the nose down at the same time. Static stability. The plane is trimmed for one AoA, the AoA increases, the plane starts to return to the trim AoA.

                    I'll admit I got this from a wiki article on aircraft/jet upset and didn't do research on it. The flight is Northwest Airlines Flight 705 (and actually a 720).


                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    An updraft, if left unattended, will create only a transient increase in the AoA. The plane can transitory stall but it will unstall itself with no pilot intervention (human or otto).
                    Ok, good. So severe updrafts are not likely to be the lone cause of a catastrophic loss of control.


                    Originally posted by Evan View Post
                    As I posted earlier in the thread, during the hunt for AF447 meteorologists estimated updrafts on the boundary of that system to be 100mph. I think the key lesson there was to avoid traversing these ITCZ systems not only due to windshear and turbulence but also due to the warm emergent air masses and the ice crystals they produce. I take it that lesson hasn't sunk in across the industry.

                    AF447 did fly into bad weather, supposedly because the captain didn't properly set the radar before he left for his urgently needed nap, just as it was becoming obvious he had underestimated the weather, and his F/O was freaking out.
                    But in the end, it wasn't an updraft that stalled the airplane.


                    It looks like the consensus here is that weather alone is very unlikely to have caused the loss of this AirAsia 8501. Hopefully we'll know soon, with the FDR recovered and the CVR supposedly located.

                    Comment


                    • Brianw999k, from the original text on flying by "Wolfgang Langwische" called "Stick and Rudder" he urges the new pilot who thinks he is muscling the machine into the air with skill and cunning to take his hands off the stick on takeoff. He notes that the aircraft will take off and climb all by itself since that is what it was made to do.

                      A good confidence builder after trimmed and some altitude under you.
                      Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                      Comment


                      • How would this work? It was mentioned today in the news about the flight data recorder recovery.

                        Separately, Airbus has begun talks with a European regulator on proposals to make ejectable flight recorders available on its two largest models, potentially making them the first commercial planes to use the technology.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jpmkam View Post
                          How would this work? It was mentioned today in the news about the flight data recorder recovery.
                          This one ejected pretty well.

                          The thing you want to do with flight recorders is find them. The chances of finding them are much greater if they are still attached to the tail section. The chances of finding the tail section are also much greater if it is attached to a locator beacon equipped flight recorder. Why would they want to separate them?

                          The smarter idea is to make just a copy of the data ejectable as some kind of flash memory device with a radio beacon that would float. At some threshold of unusual attitude or rate of descent the thing would be ejected.

                          Comment


                          • It does not bode well for locating them if it's accurate about the 10 or so feet of silty sediment that many components have sunk into.

                            It sounded like an iiky primordial jelly.
                            Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jpmkam View Post
                              How would this work? It was mentioned today in the news about the flight data recorder recovery.
                              There is an article on deployable flight recorders in Aviation Week & Space Technology dated August 4, 2014, page 46.
                              The article states that ironically several of the aircraft searching for MH470 had these type recorders.

                              The article mentions DRS Technologies who manufactures these devices - here is one used by the US Navy:
                              Leonardo DRS is a defense contractor developing advanced technologies today, and shaping the battlefield of tomorrow. Find out more.

                              Comment


                              • I think it would be better to eject the data rather than a physical gadget.

                                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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