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Malaysia Airlines Loses Contact With 777 en Route to Beijing

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  • Originally posted by HansPeter View Post
    If it is indeed from MH370 what can be learned?

    Will they be able to tell if it was a midair brake-up, a high speed impact or a "slow" brake-up in the water?

    Assuming that this particular part is from the back of the wing and assuming a high speed impact, wouldn't it be in a far worse condition then it appear to be?
    Maybe. Maybe not.
    If the plane went down in a dive and oversped it could have lost a control surface or two but remained otherwise intact for a high speed slam into the water.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      First off it is a leading edge flap part not a trailing edge flap.
      I don't think so.

      First of all, it doesn't look like a slat or TE flap at all, insteed it looks a lot like a trailing edge device (flap, aileron, flaperon).

      Second, "experts" report that, from the photos, it looks very much like a 777 flaperon (look some slots above where I posted a comparison between the photo and an engineering drawing), which is a trailing edge device.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
        I don't think so.

        First of all, it doesn't look like a slat or TE flap at all, insteed it looks a lot like a trailing edge device (flap, aileron, flaperon).

        Second, "experts" report that, from the photos, it looks very much like a 777 flaperon (look some slots above where I posted a comparison between the photo and an engineering drawing), which is a trailing edge device.

        Ok, I stand corrected on that. But it is still break and not brake! LOL

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        • Originally posted by HansPeter View Post
          If it is indeed from MH370 what can be learned?

          Will they be able to tell if it was a midair brake-up, a high speed impact or a "slow" brake-up in the water?

          Assuming that this particular part is from the back of the wing and assuming a high speed impact, wouldn't it be in a far worse condition then it appear to be?

          Boeing said that pictures are very similar to B777 parts.
          And yet, the code inside the piece (670BB) is similar of the one used in the B777.
          But of course, we need to wait for official confirmation.


          As Gabriel said, too early to draw conclusions correlating damage to speed. Other factors must be considered, such as direction of the forces that influenced the damages.
          I remember AF447, which is considered a "high speed" impact accident but left some "big pieces" around

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          • Originally posted by boeingbobby View Post
            ok, i stand corrected on that. But it is still break and not brake! Lol
            1-1

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            • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
              Brian, better look again my friend. It is a pack pack not a hard suitcase. And I can tell you from experience that I have found sails from boats in the water with barnacles, sea worms and other growths on them while out fishing.
              Well, I looked up the requirements for barnacles to attach themselves to items and used the information found.
              The bag is not really an important issue, it could come from anywhere. The important, and hopefully identifiable item is the flaperon.
              If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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              • I'm NO expert whatsoever, but I've looked at various photos of the debris/part found and it appears to me perhaps this part here...the green arrows, without the last edge (red arrow) attached.

                Just my 0.02.

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                • Originally posted by HansPeter View Post
                  If it is indeed from MH370 what can be learned?

                  Will they be able to tell if it was a midair brake-up, a high speed impact or a "slow" brake-up in the water?
                  They should be able to tell from the failure points what forces were exerted on it, the direction of force. That might reveal something if they can determine the forces that would tear it off in flight vs those of an impact. They might even be able to determine if it was a nose first impact or a flat impact. When the vertical stabilizer tore off of Air France 447, they ruled out the possibility of an in-flight separation because the failure force was longitudinal (sudden impact) rather than latitudinal (aerodynamic force).

                  Also, if there is no other wreckage found, it probably suggests an in-flight separation. I can't imagine only one piece of wreckage from an impact being far removed by currents from the rest.

                  So we shall see what else shows up...

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                  • As a follow-up, I've put a blue arrow to what I think is the "flaperon" which may very well be -wrong- but if it is indeed the flaperon, then my opinion is that's too small for the part found which I think more closely resembles the green arrow (sans red arrow edge) part, as described above.

                    Is the green arrow part also a "flaperon"? Pardon my ignorance here, I ask to learn!

                    EDIT: upon closer look, I think that what 'looks' smaller outside a window is actually just looking larger when guys are actually lifting it about, I think now that the blue arrow part is what they found. I forget how BIG these machines really are next to a person!

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                    • In my old days we used to call them "Krueger" flaps.
                      Today are "flaperons"?
                      A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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                      • Originally posted by obmot View Post
                        I'm NO expert whatsoever, but I've looked at various photos of the debris/part found and it appears to me perhaps this part here...the green arrows, without the last edge (red arrow) attached.

                        Just my 0.02.
                        I think it may be the other one: The surface that doesn't look extended between the inboard and the outboard flaps that do look extended.

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by obmot View Post
                          As a follow-up, I've put a blue arrow to what I think is the "flaperon" which may very well be -wrong- but if it is indeed the flaperon, then my opinion is that's too small for the part found which I think more closely resembles the green arrow (sans red arrow edge) part, as described above.

                          Is the green arrow part also a "flaperon"? Pardon my ignorance here, I ask to learn!

                          EDIT: upon closer look, I think that what 'looks' smaller outside a window is actually just looking larger when guys are actually lifting it about, I think now that the blue arrow part is what they found. I forget how BIG these machines really are next to a person!


                          Blue arrow is the inboard aileron.

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                          • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                            Blue arrow is the inboard aileron.
                            Hmmm...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by AVION1 View Post
                              In my old days we used to call them "Krueger" flaps.
                              Today are "flaperons"?
                              No they are different, flaperons are control surfaces on the wing of an aircraft that help to stabilize the plane during low-speed flying during take-off and landing. Flaperons combine the functions of flaps and ailerons. Flaps are used to create lift or drag depending on their use, while ailerons are used for roll control. We have them on the 747-8 and they are used on take-off and landing and also in a system known as flair assist.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by obmot View Post
                                As a follow-up, I've put a blue arrow to what I think is the "flaperon" which may very well be -wrong- but if it is indeed the flaperon, then my opinion is that's too small for the part found which I think more closely resembles the green arrow (sans red arrow edge) part, as described above.

                                Is the green arrow part also a "flaperon"? Pardon my ignorance here, I ask to learn!

                                EDIT: upon closer look, I think that what 'looks' smaller outside a window is actually just looking larger when guys are actually lifting it about, I think now that the blue arrow part is what they found. I forget how BIG these machines really are next to a person!

                                Yes. That part (blue arrow) is the flaperon. It is a high-speed aileron (the outboard aileron, beyond the flaps, is disabled at high speed) so it moves up and down to control bank. This motion is antimetrical in both wings (when it goes up in one wing, it goes down in the other). At the same time, it moves down to "close the gap" between the flap segments when they are extended. This motion is symmetrical (goes down the same amount in both sings at the same time) The two motions (acting as aileron and as flap) are algebraically added.

                                Here you cannot see it because the pilot is applying right aileron (probably due to crosswind). So the down flap deflection is cancelled by the up aileron deflection. You can see the outboard aileron deflected up.

                                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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