Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Landing into a storm

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    um...
    Relax Evan and recall the concept of primary and contributing causes...

    Icing over the pitot tubes while flying in storms was a BIG contributor...No, I don't consider it the PRIMARY cause, but I'm not a black and white thinker like you but will mention it here as we discuss the dangers of operating in and around big storms...
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

    Comment


    • #62
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by 3WE View Post
        Relax Evan and recall the concept of primary and contributing causes...

        Icing over the pitot tubes while flying in storms was a BIG contributor...No, I don't consider it the PRIMARY cause, but I'm not a black and white thinker like you but will mention it here as we discuss the dangers of operating in and around big storms...
        But was the danger there the weather or the lack of training and airmanship? I maintain that the weather that night had the potential only to disrupt the flight for a few minutes, possibly result in a mayday call if the flight level could not be held, but not cause a crash. Whereas we began this thread by talking about a final approach in the presence of potential windshear and microburst from which no recovery is possible. One is undesirable and best to circumnavigate, the other is all out reckless and potentially suicidal.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Evan View Post
          or
          Did I say something about black and white thinking?

          Both contributed.
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
            -Delta 191- Latest radar report about "near-severe" cell not conveyed to pilots.
            IIRC, there was only one meteorologist and he was - literally - out to lunch at the time.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by flight191 View Post
              IIRC, there was only one meteorologist and he was - literally - out to lunch at the time.

              References please!

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                References please!
                And here you go, from the NTSB report itself:

                "The NWS meteorologist testified that on August 2 he took his supper break at 1725. Since the ARTCC’s regulations ban food from the radar room, he had to go to the cafeteria, located down a flight of stairs and about 200 feet from the CWSU position. While he could not monitor the weather radar from the cafeteria, he could be paged if he were needed."

                Comment


                • #68
                  As the aircraft flew over Louisiana, a thunderstorm formed directly in its path. The aircraft began its descent procedures over Louisiana, heading over the planned descent route. Captain Connors then recognized the forming thunderstorm and took action to change the plane's heading to avoid the turbulent weather.
                  At Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, weather was also poor and an isolated thunderstorm developed in the vicinity of the airport. The flight crew noticed the isolated storms ahead, but decided to proceed through them anyway, which resulted in the aircraft getting caught in a microburst. At an altitude of about 1,500 feet (460 m), First Officer Price mentioned to Captain Connors that he saw lightning in one of the clouds ahead.

                  After a long investigation, the National Transportation Safety Board deemed the cause of the crash to be attributable to pilot error (for decision to fly through a thunderstorm), combined with extreme weather phenomena associated with microburst-induced wind shear.




                  I am not sure (Extreme sarcasm intended), but I do not think a meteorologist was needed to see this.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                    As the aircraft flew over Louisiana, a thunderstorm formed directly in its path. The aircraft began its descent procedures over Louisiana, heading over the planned descent route. Captain Connors then recognized the forming thunderstorm and took action to change the plane's heading to avoid the turbulent weather.
                    At Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, weather was also poor and an isolated thunderstorm developed in the vicinity of the airport. The flight crew noticed the isolated storms ahead, but decided to proceed through them anyway, which resulted in the aircraft getting caught in a microburst. At an altitude of about 1,500 feet (460 m), First Officer Price mentioned to Captain Connors that he saw lightning in one of the clouds ahead.

                    After a long investigation, the National Transportation Safety Board deemed the cause of the crash to be attributable to pilot error (for decision to fly through a thunderstorm), combined with extreme weather phenomena associated with microburst-induced wind shear.




                    I am not sure (Extreme sarcasm intended), but I do not think a meteorologist was needed to see this.
                    I don't recall the span of time involved, but the plane just ahead of Delta 191 reported far less severe conditions than what 191 encountered.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by flight191 View Post
                      I don't recall the span of time involved, but the plane just ahead of Delta 191 reported far less severe conditions than what 191 encountered.

                      I reiterate my point.....

                      The flight crew noticed the isolated storms ahead, but decided to proceed through them anyway, which resulted in the aircraft getting caught in a microburst.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                        I reiterate my point.....

                        The flight crew noticed the isolated storms ahead, but decided to proceed through them anyway, which resulted in the aircraft getting caught in a microburst.
                        Understood, I just wanted to point out that the storm developed very rapidly within a span of several minutes and then just as quickly dissipated to a trickle after the crash.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by flight191 View Post
                          Understood, I just wanted to point out that the storm developed very rapidly within a span of several minutes and then just as quickly dissipated to a trickle after the crash.
                          Which is why I believe Gabriel started this thread to begin with. Is is wise to land during an active convective cell on the airport.

                          YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT MIGHT BE IN THERE WAITING FOR YOU!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Had the pleasure of playing around with windshear and microbursts in the simulator again a few weeks ago.

                            If you ever find a pilot who says its ok to land around thunderstorms, just put him in the simulator and let him play with these events. Enough to dissuade even the best stick and rudder men from going anywhere near them.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by MCM View Post
                              Had the pleasure of playing around with windshear and microbursts in the simulator again a few weeks ago.

                              If you ever find a pilot who says its ok to land around thunderstorms, just put him in the simulator and let him play with these events. Enough to dissuade even the best stick and rudder men from going anywhere near them.

                              I get the pleasure in a couple of weeks, PC the second week of March.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by boeingbobby View Post
                                i get the pleasure in a couple of weeks, pc the second week of march.
                                pc?

                                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X