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Aspen, Colorado Canadair crash

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  • #61
    Stick pusher as part of the stall protection system?
    Parlour Talker Extraordinaire

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Evan View Post
      So what kind of stall causes a pronounced pitch down like that rather than roll or flat descent?
      A tail stall, as you've said.

      If stall did at altitude that I think it might solve the stall problem.
      I agree.

      Ok, let's clarify.

      Forget about a tail stall. While a tail stall can cause a violent pitch down, I was not thinking of a tail stall.

      If fact, I was thinking of no stall at all. That was someones' else comments in some others fora and aviation news site.

      My point that the violent pitch down was not the result of a stall but an "active" pitching down command (like the pilot slumping on the yoke or the stabilizer being bent), and that, in fact, the pitch down was so violent that the only stall I can think of is an inverted stall (not because the plane flies upside down but because the AoA and Gs are negative) as a RESULT and NOT the CAUSE of violent pitch down.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Vnav View Post
        Stick pusher as part of the stall protection system?
        Good point. That would not work in your DC-9 (including derivatives) since, as you know, the stick pusher is inhibited when the slats are extended. But I don't know if this plane follows the same logic (because it's quite logic to inhibit the stick pusher during TO and LND)

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          A tail stall, as you've said.


          I agree.

          Ok, let's clarify.

          Forget about a tail stall. While a tail stall can cause a violent pitch down, I was not thinking of a tail stall.

          If fact, I was thinking of no stall at all. That was someones' else comments in some others fora and aviation news site.

          My point that the violent pitch down was not the result of a stall but an "active" pitching down command (like the pilot slumping on the yoke or the stabilizer being bent), and that, in fact, the pitch down was so violent that the only stall I can think of is an inverted stall (not because the plane flies upside down but because the AoA and Gs are negative) as a RESULT and NOT the CAUSE of violent pitch down.
          I think we both suspect similar things here. Stall makes no sense.

          Vnav has an interesting theory but I can't imagine the stick pusher being active at this altitude. That would be senseless as well.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
            But I don't know if this plane follows the same logic...
            It does not.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Evan View Post
              ...I can't imagine the stick pusher being active at this altitude. That would be senseless as well.
              Careful...

              I believe I once posted that I couldn't believe that someone would sit there with decaying airspeed and stall warnings and allow the aircraft to stall.

              And a whole lot of people (and I mean a whole lot) couldn't imagine a that a critical, non electronic, control system would switch into "reverse mode" either.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                It does not.
                Ok, even then, a stick pusher activation would have lowered the nose a bit, barely enough to unstall. It would have neither lowered the nose so much nor lasted so long.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                  Ok, even then, a stick pusher activation would have lowered the nose a bit, barely enough to unstall. It would have neither lowered the nose so much nor lasted so long.
                  Well, yes, that's the point. What we see on that video is beyond any sensible stick-pusher effect. It appears to be a either deliberate nose down command or pilot incapicitation or control surface failure.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Evan View Post
                    Well, yes, that's the point. What we see on that video is beyond any sensible stick-pusher effect. It appears to be a either deliberate nose down command or pilot incapicitation or control surface failure.
                    ...thus begging the default comment that we need to wait for the final report
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                    • #70
                      Has anyone seen this video yet?
                      I found it on a spanish website:
                      http://terratv.terra.com/trs/video/7302343
                      A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by AVION1 View Post
                        Has anyone seen this video yet?
                        I found it on a spanish website:
                        http://terratv.terra.com/trs/video/7302343
                        Yes, it was already posted in this thread.

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                        Comment

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