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  • Who is going to take charge of the investigations? the Europeans (BEA) or the NTSB?
    A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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    • Originally posted by AVION1 View Post
      Who is going to take charge of the investigations? the Europeans (BEA) or the NTSB?
      My guess is Indonesia with assistance from other companies/agencies.

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      • Airplane shape sounds extremely unlikely to me.
        The least violent way of crashing is a ditching / emergency landing, but the pilots would have declared an emergency.
        Bar the possibility of a complete electrical black-out.
        In which case they would not have been able to make a more or less controlled ditching, right?

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        • A ditching in a commercial airliner with its underslung engines is a bit different to belly flopping a GA aircraft. 1 degree of angle of attack either side of optimum at the speed required to make anything resembling a controlled approach to landing/ditching equals a significant structural breakup.
          Compare Capt. Sullenberger's perfect landing in the Hudson River to the Ethiopian 767 hijack ditching in the Comores Islands in 1996 in relatively calm conditions. I am not making a derogatory comment against the flight crew of the Ethiopean aircraft, merely commenting on the narrow margins determining a successful ditching.

          As I type this I am hearing on the news that the UK Air Accident Investigation Board is assisting the Indonesian authorities with black box recovery.
          If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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          • Indonesian officials showed these items at the previous press conference, which have all been pulled from the ocean

            What's the large item on the table?
            AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

            Originally posted by orangehuggy
            the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

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            • Originally posted by James Bond View Post
              40 bodies have been recovered from the water: Strait Times
              Picture of floating body, one body has been lifted from the sea.
              Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.
              "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

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              • Originally posted by James Bond View Post
                Indonesian officials showed these items at the previous press conference, which have all been pulled from the ocean

                What's the large item on the table?
                The large item may be an evacuation slide/raft.

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                • Was it assembled in Germany or PRC? First A320 assembled in PRC was in sept 2008 and this aircraft was built the month after?
                  "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

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                  • The Gol 737 came down in some large 'recognisable' pieces, so an in-flight break up makes more sense to me and also explains the radar and lack of comms data.

                    Seems hard to accept that a modern aircraft can fail like this and harder to accept such a horrible loss of life.

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                    • Originally posted by Alessandro View Post
                      Was it assembled in Germany or PRC? First A320 assembled in PRC was in sept 2008 and this aircraft was built the month after?
                      http://www.airbus.com/company/worldw...rbus-in-china/
                      Aviation website for aircraft and airline information (flight, photo, travel, fleet listing, production list of Airbus Boeing Douglas Embraer Dash, ATR, Sukhoi, Saab...), plane photos for planespotters, flightlog database, aviation news, aviation store.


                      Test reg F-WWBZ, so probably in Europe.

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                      • Originally posted by Dispatch Dog View Post
                        The Gol 737 came down in some large 'recognisable' pieces, so an in-flight break up makes more sense to me and also explains the radar and lack of comms data.
                        What? Aside from the wing box there wasn't much recognizable there. An inflight break-up doesn't match reports of 'several large sections' and in the 'shape of an aircraft' at all.

                        But those reports have yet to be confirmed. The wheels are moving dreadfully slow down there. I wonder if they've located the one that overran the runway yet.

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                        • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                          What? Aside from the wing box there wasn't much recognizable there. An inflight break-up doesn't match reports of 'several large sections' and in the 'shape of an aircraft' at all.

                          But those reports have yet to be confirmed. The wheels are moving dreadfully slow down there. I wonder if they've located the one that overran the runway yet.
                          The words "several large sections" are all in the perception of the observer so we have to leave a wide margin of discrepancy with our own. And plastic Airbuses may fall apart differently from a Boeing under similar conditions.

                          It's reasonable to expect the engines to detach under extreme g loads and if the fuel is released through airframe ruptures, the airframe will be relatively light and impact the water relatively lightly compared to AF447 and SR111, even if the primary structure was more or less in one piece. I would also speculate that engine detachment would leave a very rearward CG and promote a deep stall and or flat spin, possibly with a high G pull-up that could knock out most folk. Not sure how much electrical power would remain after physically losing both engines either.

                          Just speculation.

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                          • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                            A ditching in a commercial airliner with its underslung engines is a bit different to belly flopping a GA aircraft. 1 degree of angle of attack either side of optimum at the speed required to make anything resembling a controlled approach to landing/ditching equals a significant structural breakup.
                            Compare Capt. Sullenberger's perfect landing in the Hudson River to the Ethiopian 767 hijack ditching in the Comores Islands in 1996 in relatively calm conditions. I am not making a derogatory comment against the flight crew of the Ethiopean aircraft, merely commenting on the narrow margins determining a successful ditching.

                            As I type this I am hearing on the news that the UK Air Accident Investigation Board is assisting the Indonesian authorities with black box recovery.

                            I don't want to get into this again but, against my will, I will:
                            - The Ethipian plane hit the water in quite a bank and quite fast, the pilots were fighting and wrestling with the kidnappers.
                            - We had this other 737 that ditched short of the runway and stopped just short of the sea wall. This plane remained essentially intact and the pilots were not even attempting to ditch. It was a CFIT.
                            - Sully did not a great job in the ditching itself. He established the last portion of the glide with insufficient speed, fleared too soon, pushed the stick fully back, and the stall protection of the A320 FBW kicked in to prevent a stall, yet the vertical speed at impact was several times higher than what Airbus recommends for a ditching, and was in the "hard" side of a normal landing. That said Sully was BRILLIANT in how he managed the emergency situation as a whole.

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                            • Hectic last few days in asia, one AirAsian plane down in the Java Sea, another skidded off the runway in Phillipines. Jet Airways had a serious birdstrike and engine fire in Nepal.
                              "The real CEO of the 787 project is named Potemkin"

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                              • [QUOTE=Evan;627691].......... The wheels are moving dreadfully slow down there. ......................QUOTE]

                                Given the reported bad weather it seems to me the search is proceeding at a reasonable rate. And the search should be underway (Wednesday local time) now that it is daylight.

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