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  • Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605

    I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment.

    Wikipedia has a very short article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western...es_Flight_2605) which I would dearly like to expand.

    As this accident involved a US carrier, was there an NTSB report?

  • #2
    Accident description

    See the following URL for info. on this tragedy:

    A McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10 passenger plane, registered N903WA, was damaged beyond repair in a landing accident at Mexico City-Juarez International Airport (MEX), Mexico. There were 77 passengers and crew members on board. And one person on the ground was killed. The airplane operated on a flight from Los Angeles International Airport, CA (LAX) to Mexico City-Benito Juárez International Airport (MEX).
    s.h./YEG

    Comment


    • #3
      It was a DGAC (Mexican) investigation. Don't have the report but the FAA provides this summary of the investigation:

      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      FILE DATE LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA
      F S M/N PURPOSE
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      1-0026 79/10/31 MEXICO CITY,MEX DOUGLAS DC-10 CR- 11 0 2 SCHED INTERNATL PASSG SRV AIRLINE TRANSPORT, AGE
      TIME - 0542 N903WA PX- 61 13 2 53, 31500 TOTAL HOURS,
      DAMAGE-DESTROYED OT- 0 0 0 2248 IN TYPE, INSTRUMENT
      RATED.
      NAME OF AIRPORT - LICENCIADO BENITO
      OPERATOR - WESTERN AIR LINES,INC.
      DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION
      LOS ANGELES,CA MEXICO CITY,MEX
      TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION
      COLLIDED WITH: AUTOMOBILE LANDING: GO-AROUND
      PROBABLE CAUSE(S)
      PILOT IN COMMAND - IMPROPER IFR OPERATION
      PILOT IN COMMAND - FAILED TO FOLLOW APPROVED PROCEDURES,DIRECTIVES,ETC.
      MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - RUNWAY CLOSED
      FIRE AFTER IMPACT
      REMARKS- INVEST & REPORTED BY GOVT OF MEX.RWY 23R ASSIGNED,INITIAL T/D OFF 23L.HIT TRUCK.WX-FOG.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 9V-SJH View Post
        See the following URL for info. on this tragedy:

        http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=19791031-0
        I don't know the details, but from what's in that link, it was not just simply a landing in the wrong runway. Key points:
        - The plane was cleared to land on 27R
        - Apparently (given the NTSB recommendations shown there) it was a sidestep approach, meaning that the plane was supposed to do an instrument approach to 27L and, when in visual contact with the runway, make a side step to 27R.
        - The airplane descended in fog busting the approach minimums of 600ft (that is a high minimum for a regular instrument approach, but not for a sidestep approach).
        - The airplane touched down with the left main gear on the grass and the right one on the runway's shoulder.
        - One of the NTSB recommendation was to publish separate approach plates for sidestep approaches.
        - The tower warned the flight three times about the closed runway (according to a link in the wikipedia article).

        (Note, the NTSB must have been an invited party in the investigation for being US the country of the operator, of the manufacturer and of registration of the airplane)

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

        Comment


        • #5
          I think there's a CVR on Airdisaster.com. It might be fake, but then with it being a non-US crash, it might have leaked out?

          In listening to it, there is confusion in the cockpit about what approach they are on versus what runway they are cleared to land on.

          Classic case of a little confusion, but 'deciding' that everyting is OK because "how could things go wrong- every other approach I've ever done in my life worked out ok"
          Les rčgles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

          Comment


          • #6
            The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107.

            Cheers!
            moving quickly in air

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
              I don't know the details...
              It was a DC-10.

              Care to speculate if that stiff connection between the gear and the wing might have affected the beak up some. (I know of a DC-9 that hit a truck and everyone lived).
              Les rčgles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by orangehuggy View Post
                The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107.

                Cheers!
                Len Morgan
                Gordon Baxter
                Les rčgles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                  I think there's a CVR on Airdisaster.com. It might be fake, but then with it being a non-US crash, it might have leaked out?

                  In listening to it, there is confusion in the cockpit about what approach they are on versus what runway they are cleared to land on.

                  Classic case of a little confusion, but 'deciding' that everyting is OK because "how could things go wrong- every other approach I've ever done in my life worked out ok"
                  I've looked and the transcript does not appear to be there. Some further websearching bought up a note to the effect that it had been removed.

                  I found an earlier discussion (from 2005) on another fourm



                  But also a rather frustrating item from a news archive site, which implies that portions of the ATC conversation were included in news broadcasts & that the CVRs went to the US.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I recall hearing the CVR on this one years ago, a difficult one in its last monent, still huants me to this day, very sad.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                      It was a DC-10.

                      Care to speculate if that stiff connection between the gear and the wing might have affected the beak up some. (I know of a DC-9 that hit a truck and everyone lived).
                      From the Flying article, it seems to have kept both wings after the hard touchdown.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Another piece of frustration. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived.

                        I also used it to open a geocities page linked to off the aviation-safety.net page which points to a vanity press book written by someone claiming to have been a member of Western Airline 2605s cabin crew and who seems to have been pushing some kind of conspiracy theory from what's on the site.



                        There's a placeholder where he claims to have the full cvr transcripts and that he's going to post them 'soon'

                        Also found another discussion of the recording:



                        And something that appears to quote from contemporary press accounts:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wow!! When I first started reading the links, I thought they were just to the left of 23R. I had to read it again to make clear they were to the left of 23L also!!

                            Even if 23L was open they would have had their hands full.

                            This is an unbelievable screw teh pooch disaster.

                            What I dont get from that Flying article is which runway was lit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheKiecker View Post
                              Wow!! When I first started reading the links, I thought they were just to the left of 23R. I had to read it again to make clear they were to the left of 23L also!!

                              Even if 23L was open they would have had their hands full.

                              This is an unbelievable screw teh pooch disaster.

                              What I dont get from that Flying article is which runway was lit.
                              The article says 23L was lit.

                              It seems crazy for the field to have been using a localizer on a runway with heavy equipment moving around, as they would create signal distortions. Perhaps this is why they landed left of the runway. But then the pilots also acknowledged that they were a bit left of track. There's no question that this was pilot error, as they should never have continued the approach when they became confused (and low on the glideslope). The question in my mind is whether this was an error in continuing an unstable approach on purpose or a failed a go-around attempt. Although key parts of the CVR are missing, it seems to me like it could have been the latter.

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