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777 Crash and Fire at SFO

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  • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    @#%@#%!!!!!!!!(Of course this still will not solve the extremely rare simultaneous big brain fart.)
    IMHO, isn't this the crux of it? I wouldn't suggest the pilots were not capable (they've landed successfully hundreds/thousands of times) or knowledgeable ( you really can't fake something for that long).

    It would seem to me to be a matter of execution - they neglected to do something that they a) knew how to do and b) had done many times before.

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    • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
      Please open the door and start the engines for me. Give me a sectional chart, and even I will fly the 777 in daylight VFR (as I did with the 737).
      My point exactly!

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      • Originally posted by Evan View Post
        This an an endemic problem, this attitude thing. BoeingBobby, I'm sure you are one hell of a pilot and the guy on the right might not be but do you think it is really possible for a veteran pilot to overcome the cockpit gradient?

        Q: If you were on final approach that was falling apart (beyond the acceptable range) but in your long experience you felt confident that you could stabilize before 500' and your RJ wizz kid F/O starts prodding you to go around, what should you do in that situation?

        Go around!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Me
          PNF needs to "kill" the pressurization just before touchdown
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          What????
          In the final moments before touchdown none of the pilots have to do anything but fly and monitor. Yoke, rudder and throttles are the only things touched in the last 500ft and during the high-speed part of the roll-out.
          Did you catch Snyders comment about the Jetstream?

          Indeed, when riding the J31, the PNF would turn the pressurization off about when we crossed the fence, and would run the altitude alert down to zero, lest there be a nasty beep as they continued below 200 ft (approach minimums)....(all of this done in visual conditions)

          ...and that's kind of a critical thing to do becuause pressurization usually jams the doors in place, and might impede an evacuation, and the beep could interfere with important communication.
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
            @#%@#%!!!!!!!!

            Before someone solos (we're typically talking 20 hours of flight time here, they need to be glancing at the ASI a good bit.)

            You're putting out gear, you're putting out flaps, you might feel like pulling up a bit (to stretch your glide OR to start the round out/flare...airpseed ROUTINELY DECAYS!!!!!!!!

            I'm tiring of the allegations that training is "so wrong".

            You are supposed to @!#%@# learn this in the first five hours of your flight training!!!!!!!!!!!

            Instead, I think we need some very small adjustments to training...

            Like a 5 question quiz in the simulator right after completing the V1 engine cut and single engine approach to minimums:

            1. What can happen when you pull up really hard and relentlessly (going slow helps too).

            1a. Are there times when an Airbus will take your control input (of pulling up hard) and do EXACTLY what you ask, as opposed to INTERPRETING what it THINKS you ask.

            2. Do you scan your six basic 'instruments' frequently- ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE GOING SLOWER AND CLOSE TO THE GROUND!!!!!!!!!? (I know it's a single panel now, but the data's all there in the same basic positions)

            3. If the president of your country (or some uber powerful CEO) asks you to shoot an approach and go below minimums, what will you do?

            4. Do you hand fly whenver it's reasonable to and there's skills to be brushed up?

            5. What will you do to be sure that you don't pull a Comair, Pinnacle, Colgan, AirFrance and Asiana eye-rolling, how in the hell did they do that type of crash?

            5 additional minutes to flight training and they're done! (Of course this still will not solve the extremely rare simultaneous big brain fart.)

            my point was simply that perhaps their training (which is ongoing forever!) does not include the requirement that they account for an a/t that isn't doing what they think it should.

            as my pilot friend said, since HAL is doing the technical flying, the pilot's job becomes supervising HAL. clearly these turkeys did not do that.

            Comment


            • Sadly a 3rd person has died as a result of this. R.I.P.
              Yet another AD.com convert!

              Comment


              • More NTSB Photos


                AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                Originally posted by orangehuggy
                the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                Comment


                • NBC: SFPD Confirm Asiana Airlines 16 Year Old Crash Victim Was Struck By Responding SFFD Fire Apparatus while she was covered by firefighting foam. Unknown if it played a role in her death.

                  AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                  Originally posted by orangehuggy
                  the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                  Comment


                  • KTVU screwed the pooch on the pilot names. Obviously someone got the same e-mail my dad sent me...

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZR4E...ature=youtu.be

                    Along more serious lines, here's a reconstruction of the accident:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?client=...are&nomobile=1
                    The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by James Bond View Post
                      Wait. what?!

                      That makes no sense.
                      Make sense now ?

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                      • Originally posted by TheKiecker View Post
                        Make sense now ?
                        My comment was based on the assumption that the rescue would have approached the aircraft from the front while at the same time assuming that the 2 pax had been ejected during the crash and were somewhere at the back of the plane.



                        Based on the above screen grab and the fact that one of the two had been covered in foam, I can no longer understand how the pax got there.

                        Hope that makes sense.
                        AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                        Originally posted by orangehuggy
                        the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by James Bond View Post
                          My comment was based on the assumption that the rescue would have approached the aircraft from the front while at the same time assuming that the 2 pax had been ejected during the crash and were somewhere at the back of the plane.



                          Based on the above screen grab and the fact that one of the two had been covered in foam, I can no longer understand how the pax got there.

                          Hope that makes sense.
                          Yeah, and this was in broad daylight.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by snydersnapshots View Post
                            KTVU screwed the pooch on the pilot names. Obviously someone got the same e-mail my dad sent me...

                            Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
                            OMG THAT"S REAL!!!

                            That has to be the most hilarious thing I've seen all year!

                            This whole thing is shaping up to be a professional how-stupid-can-you-be contest.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                              OMG THAT"S REAL!!!

                              That has to be the most hilarious thing I've seen all year!

                              This whole thing is shaping up to be a professional how-stupid-can-you-be contest.
                              I can't believe it either. Someone sent that to me @ work, just a screenshot, and I figured it was a joke that someone Photoshopped.

                              No doubt someone is looking for a new job right about now.

                              Comment


                              • KTVU is trying to blame the NTSB. Desperate stuff.
                                AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                                Originally posted by orangehuggy
                                the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                                Comment

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