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  • Originally posted by Evan View Post
    Here's the thing Andy—no doubt about it, Boeing Bobby can be a ballbusting prick. He is also a genuine line pilot flying the latest technology and we are grateful to have him and his expertise here. This isn't a social wankoff forum. It's a special interest forum. We come here to learn as much as discuss.

    But you, the generation spawned by the internet, seem to have a unique quality whereby you believe your vastly uninformed and novice imagination of any arcane and technical subject to be as valid as the well informed knowledge that only comes from a devoted study and/or practice of a subject over time. In other words, you seem to lack respect for real authority and expertise. Therefore you fail to realize how annoying your entirely uninformed questions are to a forum shared by those who seriously study the subject matter.

    But there is hope Andy: this is how a technical forum works:

    First: you learn by following the forum for a year or two. You do some other research on your own. You gather more factual information about aircraft, piloting and the industry. You learn Andy. You just don't post anything.

    Second: You take all you've learned by listening and studying and use this to contribute an informed an intelligent question or comment to this thread.

    Third: If #1 and #2 have been done well, you are taken seriously and your questions and contributions are welcomed and maybe even respected. That is something you have to earn in any field.

    This forum IS better than most BECAUSE it is not a mainstream forum, it is populated by knowledgeable members (including some commercial airmen) and not simply ignorance-based populist theories (yes, we always have a few exceptions). People aren't just being impolite here. Modern aviation is a very technical field. You are pestering them by invading a forum of knowledgeable people without having any technical understanding. A bit of humility will tell you this. Without that, no one can teach you anything.

    If you are being ignored, take that as a sign. When your contributions become valuable, you will know.
    Disagree with much of this, beginning with the self-righteous tone.

    First, how is this a technical forum? That's not what I read in the description. It's about all aspects of airline safety, not all of which are technical.

    Second, what do you mean by "not a mainstream forum?" It's an open forum, which means that anyone can - and does - join. Because the focus of this site is aviation photography, discussions on airline safety don't get as much attention here as they do on pprune, if that's what you mean by mainstream, but with more sifting through pprune comments you typically find more legit info than you ever would here. Jetphotos has plenty of technical discussion, but it's mostly based on lens types and light conditions.

    Certainly, there are several knowledgable people on here, but it's by no means a prerequisite to join, and if you're going to hold up Boeing Bobby as an example of an actual pilot, then I give up.

    Your description of how a "technical forum" works, by the way, is straight out of fantasy land. Study it for a year or two? Do some independent research? (i.e. Google a bunch of shit.). THEN you're qualified? Haha. That might be how YOU decided the forum works, but for all the people here with technical knowledge, it shouldn't be necessary, and for those of us without, well, I guess that using your brain and making a thoughtful comment without 2 years of googling makes you a troll.

    I don't know, maybe Andy is a troll, or maybe he just speaks off the cuff, but I don't care, when in doubt, don't respond. But your depiction of this forum is way out of line with reality... 'We don't suffer fools gladly here on Jetphotos, oh, unless you mean the 6 million page Polish president conspiracy thread.'

    Give me a break.

    Comment


    • Evan,
      I get your points in what you say but the aviation experts here have to accept that this forum exists for the benefit and participation of all comers whatever their their levels of knowledge and expertise.
      Just because the likes of BoeingBobby have hundreds or maybe thousands of flight hours in heavy iron does not mean that I with my sum total of 18hrs student pilot in a Piper Cherokee am not permitted to make comment or ask questions.
      I particularly take offence to Bobby's reply to the contributor who commented on the entirely reasonable possibility of human remains on the surface. That person was speculating on a possibility and did not deserve to be sarcastically told to "Get help"
      There was no guide to the size of the floating mass and believe me, from my medical experience and experience in rescue and recovery of human remains such remains can resemble not much more than than the oil slick pictured after extensive time in water. I will however admit to such a scenario being unlikely......but it is possible.
      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

      Comment


      • This is all very odd...
        Six days ago the Australians saiid they saw something and was sending ships
        Then a couple of days later the French saw something and was investigating
        Then two days ago the Chinese spot debris too

        But no one is confirming anything? Surely the Australian discovery would have shown us something now?
        Where are the results of all these sightings?
        They keep seeing stuff then go quiet ....hmmm...

        Comment


        • I get your points in what you say but the aviation experts here have to accept that this forum exists for the benefit and participation of all comers whatever their their levels of knowledge and expertise.
          Anyone here, expert or otherwise, should understand that, but that doesn't mean they are obliged to give answers like andyb seems to think he is entitled to, nor have to play 'softly softly' when people flat out insult their profession, professionalism, and that of their peers.

          It is perhaps worth remembering for the general public when dealing with us pilots, that we have a very specific mentality. We are a different breed - we really are. We operate in our own world, with our own forms of communication that work for our jobs. We speak bluntly and concisely - not because we are trying to be rude, but because it is effective and leads to less misunderstandings.

          Rumours, lies, and misinformation are simply not tolerated. Why? Because it gets us KILLED. I'm sure BoeingBobby would be able to tell you of scenarios where someone has tried to mislead them to get an aircraft away quickly, when really it was unsuitable for flight. But he probably won't, and nor will most other pilots. We have very finely tuned 'bullshit detectors'. Our hackles go up the second we think someone is telling us something that is less than the whole truth.

          We are also fiercely protective of our colleagues and industry. We're aviation people, and we love sharing our knowledge and experiences with people who are interested. But at the same time, we have an intense dislike of the hundreds of armchair experts who make wide, sweeping statements (that often insult us) without the credibility to do so.

          Just because the likes of BoeingBobby have hundreds or maybe thousands of flight hours in heavy iron does not mean that I with my sum total of 18hrs student pilot in a Piper Cherokee am not permitted to make comment or ask questions.
          Absolutely - and your input is invaluable. But the point there is surely 'asking questions' and making comment. You also don't get the shits with the 'experts' when you don't immediately get an answer. I suspect that in your profession, as mine, you don't like dealing in rumour and prefer to deal in fact (as so far as reasonable).

          Returning to the topic (and throwing my hat in the speculative basket) - I notice that AMSA (the Aussie search and rescue organisation) have politely 'cracked the shits' with the Malaysians, as they continue to refuse to provide details of the cargo manifest to the official search and rescue organisation, who believe such details will be of significant assistance in the search.

          The Malaysian government is going to have a lot to answer for after this is all over, particularly wasting everyone's time in the first few days of the search.

          Comment


          • I have regularly airfreighted stuff on wooden pallets and they were not put inside any containers since they were over sized.
            I'm surprised to hear that someone in the business has never seeen a wooden pallet on a plane.
            Per
            Ancient Mariner
            Certified above and below...................sea level.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TheRealAncientMarine View Post
              I have regularly airfreighted stuff on wooden pallets and they were not put inside any containers since they were over sized.
              I'm surprised to hear that someone in the business has never seeen a wooden pallet on a plane.
              Per
              Quite true, however I would presume that those wooden pallets were either of such design that they would move freely on the floor rollers, and be suitable to secure , or alternatively, they would be strapped to a standard air cargo pallet of some kind which would facilitate the loading:

              Control your supply chain with a personal online dashboard, allowing you to access quotes, book air and ocean shipments and run detailed reports.


              I guess you are not saying that wooden pallets of just any kind would be allowed on board without restriction, as handling would be a nightmare.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                But admit it Bobby, until you googled that, specifically when you copied and pasted direct from Wikipedia you didn't have a clue did you ? !!

                You are 100% correct Brian. But when I am posed with a question that I have no knowledge of, I try and find out what I can about it. I don't know much about nuclear physics either, but unlike our former president, I can pronounce the word. LOL

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pierpp View Post
                  Where are the results of all these sightings?
                  Posted by the Sydney Morning Herald @ 9.40 UTC

                  Prime Minister Tony Abbott told Parliament on Monday night that a RAAF P-3 Orion aircraft had located two new objects at about 2.45pm on Monday, writes James Massola, Political Correspondent.
                  Mr Abbott said the Australian Maritime Safety Authority had advised him the Orion crew had seen a grey or green circular object as well as an orange rectangular object, both of which are separate to the objects spotted by a Chinese aircraft, in the Indian ocean.
                  Mr Abbott said he did not know if the objects were from the Malaysia Airlines MH370 flight, but recovery efforts continued.
                  HMAS Success is on the scene and is trying to recover the objects, while a US navy Poseidon aircraft, as well as a second Australian Orion and a Japanese Orion aircraft were en route to the area.

                  http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysia...#ixzz2wsZV8pTV
                  At the Press conference they confirmed this.

                  then at 10.59 UTC

                  The crew aboard the P-3 Orion were "running on adrenaline" after making the discovery, the plane's captain Flight Lieutenant Josh Williams said.
                  While still aboard the aircraft Flight Lieutenant Williams told reporters: "It is the first time we have seen something in the area."
                  He said there was no way for the onboard crew to classify what they were looking at. "The image analysis will be done on land, and then HMAS Success will get to the area and try and retrieve some of these objects," he said.
                  "The first object was rectangular, slightly below the ocean, the second object was circular, also slightly below the ocean."
                  He described the cylindrical object as about 2metres long and about 30cm wide; and the second object as "also cylindrical and shaped in a rough fish hook."
                  "We were going hammer and tongs there for three hours," he said. "The guys were running on adrenaline."
                  "Everyone was quite hyped, but fatigue is starting to set in now."
                  The P-3 Orion dropped flares onto the ocean as a marker for other search crews aboard aircraft and ships.
                  from reporter Rania Spooner in Perth.
                  HMAS Success is on the way and should be there at 12.00 UTC
                  AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                  Originally posted by orangehuggy
                  the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Passion for flying View Post
                    Quite true, however I would presume that those wooden pallets were either of such design that they would move freely on the floor rollers, and be suitable to secure , or alternatively, they would be strapped to a standard air cargo pallet of some kind which would facilitate the loading:
                    You are correct, they would have to be secured with cargo straps and nets to a metal pallet called a cookie sheet so it would fit into the roller system and the tie downs.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Passion for flying View Post
                      Quite true, however I would presume that those wooden pallets were either of such design that they would move freely on the floor rollers, and be suitable to secure , or alternatively, they would be strapped to a standard air cargo pallet of some kind which would facilitate the loading:

                      Control your supply chain with a personal online dashboard, allowing you to access quotes, book air and ocean shipments and run detailed reports.


                      I guess you are not saying that wooden pallets of just any kind would be allowed on board without restriction, as handling would be a nightmare.
                      I've no idea, ours are made to measure for each unit. They range in size from roughly 2.0x0.5 m to 6.0x1,5 m. Some are shipped with scheduled pax flights, some obviously with pure freight planes as they would only fit rear or front loaders.
                      Per
                      Ancient Mariner
                      Certified above and below...................sea level.

                      Comment


                      • According to CNN, the Chinese a/c spotted debris (same as the ones described by the RAAF above) from FL330
                        AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                        Originally posted by orangehuggy
                        the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                          Just because the likes of BoeingBobby have hundreds or maybe thousands of flight hours in heavy iron does not mean that I with my sum total of 18hrs student pilot in a Piper Cherokee am not permitted to make comment or ask questions.
                          Man, was that taken the wrong way...

                          What I meant is that aviation is a technical subject, not that it is a technical forum for technicians only. You cannot just use your imagination and logic to understand it. Obviously Brian, like myself, you have taken enough initiative to learn enough about it to post non-ridiculous stoner theories that have no relation to the realities of aerodynamics or aeronautics. I'm not suggesting anyone needs to be an authority here (or I wouldn't be here), I'm just saying we value thoughtful input based on some developed understanding of the subject matter. I followed the forum for about a year before I ever posted anything, and when I did it was because I had studied the systems a bit in the wake of Turkish 1951 and recognized a Boeing systems vulnerability there. I needed answers to that. (two years later I finally found proof that the issue existed and that Boeing had known about it and quietly replaced that system in 2003 with a new one).

                          All I'm saying is that the internet forums are polluted with combative uninformed noise by people who have little respect for learning. Pprune is largely immune from that. I'd like this forum remain a more accessible version of Pprune rather than a more informed version of Fox news.

                          I'm done going off topic.

                          Comment


                          • Evan:
                            Pprune is largely immune from that.
                            Really? Have you checked out their MAS-thread? 8000'ish post to now and probably as many deleted.
                            Jetphotos' in comparison is restrained, proffesional and a pleasure to read.......sort of.
                            Per
                            Ancient Mariner
                            Certified above and below...................sea level.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by James Bond View Post
                              According to CNN, the Chinese a/c spotted debris (same as the ones described by the RAAF above) from FL330
                              How can you spot debris from 33,000 ft?
                              Are they using a telescope?
                              I must assume it was a typographical error, maybe it was from 3,300 ft.
                              A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TheRealAncientMarine View Post
                                Evan:
                                Really? Have you checked out their MAS-thread? 8000'ish post to now and probably as many deleted.
                                Jetphotos' in comparison is restrained, proffesional and a pleasure to read.......sort of.
                                Per
                                Yes, I want to endorse that. Pprune is a much better forum than this one, on the whole, I'm sorry to say. HOWEVER, in the case of MH370 the thread there is simply too long and repetitive, as well as frequently plain silly, and so this thread here is, as Per says, almost a pleasure, with some excellent contributions.

                                Comment

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