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P-51 Crashes at Reno Air Races, Spectator Casualties

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  • #76
    Maybe we should be dropping statistics from this discussion. They are, after all quite meaningless. The chances of winning the lottery jackpot are said (in the UK) to be around 15million to 1.
    I say it's even odds...either I win it.......or I don't !

    I don't know the layout of the Reno course but I assume that spectators are seated outside the course ? One immediate possible safety mod at Reno could be to put spectators inside the course rather than outside thus having turning aircraft always turning away from spectators ?
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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    • #77
      Quick search has this map:

      the issue happened coming through pylons 8 and 9 from what I can tell.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Fear_of_Flying View Post
        I would start by saying I didn't realize spectator injuries had ever occurred in boat racing, but which race was it, let's look it up and see if the accident resulted in any changes in safety?
        Drag boat race accidents are a staple of death-and-disaster-porn shows like "Destroyed in Seconds" and the ilk. It's easy enough to Google

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        • #79
          Race parents are indeed spectators and a long trail down the hill has lots of places for them to watch.

          The danger to the parent is a racer catching an edge and going off course.
          Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by guamainiac View Post
            I'll make a prediction here that the incident that will cause a real furor will be the "Red Bull" pylon race series.

            Sure it is done over a river or lake but there are boats and such that could be whammed.

            Like P. T. Barnum said .... let the show go on?

            If you go out into the desert at Reno you know what you are walking into and if you don't you are a candidate for a "Darwin".
            In the interests of staying current (Wikipedia):

            The 2011 series of [Red Bull Air] races worldwide has been cancelled. The decision was taken by Red Bull on 27 July 2010 to allow for a "headquarters" restructure as well as the implementation of new safety measures. It is unknown if the series will return in 2012
            So it's unclear what the future for Red Bull was prior to this accident.

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            • #81
              As much as I love the Red Bull airrace concept - bringing sport aviation back into fashion - there is no-doubt that there are enormous risks associated with the way they do it in the middle of cities.

              Thats where Reno is different.

              I'm personally a bit surprised Red Bull got away with it as long as they did, given they had a number of "incidents" that they only just got away with.

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              • #82
                Man those Red Bull races were exciting, but totally insane. It's like watching MMA fights and wondering how those guys don't kill each other.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by MCM View Post
                  As much as I love the Red Bull airrace concept - bringing sport aviation back into fashion - there is no-doubt that there are enormous risks associated with the way they do it in the middle of cities.

                  Thats where Reno is different.

                  I'm personally a bit surprised Red Bull got away with it as long as they did, given they had a number of "incidents" that they only just got away with.
                  You know, I can almost imagine someone saying something like - What's next, ban gliders? It's a slippery slope once you start banning these sorts of things in the name of public safety.

                  But, someone counters, Red Bull Racing is different. When you fly in the middle of the city, you are endangering people who didn't sign up for the risk.

                  Yes, the argument continues, but when you fly a glider, you might hit an unsuspecting person standing in the middle of a field. The risk of driving to the Red Bull Races is far greater than the race itself. Life is a risk. Take your stupidity elsewhere...

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Fear_of_Flying View Post
                    You know, I can almost imagine someone saying something like - What's next, ban gliders? It's a slippery slope once you start banning these sorts of things in the name of public safety.

                    But, someone counters, Red Bull Racing is different. When you fly in the middle of the city, you are endangering people who didn't sign up for the risk.

                    Yes, the argument continues, but when you fly a glider, you might hit an unsuspecting person standing in the middle of a field. The risk of driving to the Red Bull Races is far greater than the race itself. Life is a risk. Take your stupidity elsewhere...
                    I actually had a plan to fly a glider from Lake Elsinore to San Clemente and land in Nixon's front lawn of the western White House. Never could pull it off, but it would have had an interesting outcome.

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                    • #85
                      Gliders "land out" .... I'll bet 50 times a day which is why the wings come off so easily and you usually have a bunch of pals ready to pick you up.

                      Speeds are slow and fields are usually available.

                      I sold my 150+ an hour Corvette and am now searching for a slower TVR.
                      Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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                      • #86
                        In this picture, looks like he is concentrated in the cockpit, maybe trying to fight with the crazy commands.
                        A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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                        • #87
                          It looks like in that photo that the elevator is deflected upward, as if he has the stick in his lap, and the right aileron is deflected downward as if he's trying to roll back over to his left, assuming he's conscious.

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                          • #88
                            Interesting video from Bill Whittle about this crash.

                            After the tragic airplane crash at the Reno Air Races, a chorus of protests arose to calling for an end to the air races. But was the pilot to blame or fault...

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                            • #89
                              +1 for that!
                              “The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire.”

                              Erwin

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                              • #90
                                It was interesting until he went all right wing and started attacking all the MSNBC pundits. Of course they don't know anything about air racing or even flying in general other than making sure their tray table is in the locked and upright position in their business class seats. But going off on a socialist rant really turned me off to what started as a good argument in favor of not over reacting to the Reno tragedy.

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