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Hazard lights on high-rise confuse MD 83 pilots

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  • #16
    Originally posted by LRJet Guy
    My prick is bigger than all of yours......


    Yes, those lights could be mistaken for approach lights. You'd be surprised how many things look like other things when you've been flying all day and are very tired.
    This bears repeating.

    There are plenty of charts out there that specifically state how highways/buildings/etc. can be mistaken for runways at night.
    Anybody can fly a round airplane....

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    • #17
      'tis why tha FAA or someone won't let you fly for more than 11 hours. I think that's what it is, correct me if I'm wrong. For the safety of the passengers and others.

      -Chris

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      • #18
        Originally posted by N9103M
        There are plenty of charts out there that specifically state how highways/buildings/etc. can be mistaken for runways at night.
        I'm not doubting that highways can be mistaken, heck, the highway besides HAM's north-south runway purposely had large metal panels installed above it so that it won't be mistaken for a runway, but as far as buildings go...

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        • #19
          I have to agree, if I'm flying an approach at night in low visibility and I see something like that, my first instinct would be to go for it, because it really does look very similar to an approach light system that's used in the US.


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          • #20
            Originally posted by LRJet Guy
            My prick is bigger than all of yours......
            It's not the size of the gun, it's the velocity of the bullet that counts.

            If we have to correct information, lets be a bit civil.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ptbodale
              If we have to correct information, lets be a bit civil.
              but that's no fun!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by screaming_emu
                but that's no fun!
                Well that's true too. I think I'm the only guy that failed the "Dale Carnagie" course 3 times. hahahaha (according to my boss!)

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                • #23
                  My spin on it is that I love reading the inputs from guys with little or no flying experience, it can often put things into perspective for guys with thousands of hours... an outside view is always nice!

                  If I had my way (which I never get ), I would ask that if you don't have a large amount of experience in a particular area, that wide sweeping statements sounding like you have the definitive answer to something may not be the way to go.

                  For example, in my case I have a bit of experience in the airline game, but I have never flown in Canada... so I might be fairly forthwright in my talking about things in my area of expertese (for example how difficult runway lights and runways may be to find... until you've actually been in the real thing trying to find a runway without approach lighting you will never know what it is like... F/S just doesn't replicate that well) and while I might venture an opinion about an airport or airline in Canada, I'm certainly not going to say something is fact when I really don't know that it is.

                  And besides... mine is bigger than yours, so

                  P.S Maxpower... just out of interest, the reason you can't find any low vis approach photos is 1) We're too busy and stressed to take them, and 2) You can't see anything anyway haha. Unfortunately I don't think JP (esp. AJ ) will let me upload a night blackhole photo that I've got... as there is nothing to see!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MCM
                    My spin on it is that I love reading the inputs from guys with little or no flying experience, it can often put things into perspective for guys with thousands of hours... an outside view is always nice!
                    Yeah, I get that every day at work when I'm flight instructing.

                    I think my favorite was when we landed in KWWD. My student forgot to do his descent checklist (and the most important part of that is turning on the Aux fuel pump) and I thought I'd let him figure it out on his own. We were supposed to do a touch and go.

                    So we land, I retract the flaps to the t/o position (my indication to the student that we have enough room) and as he adds full power the engine completely stops because the aux pump isn't on to help it cope with the sudden power change.

                    I saw this coming so I take control (we were still on the ground) and we coasted off onto one of the taxiways. My student is white as a ghost and says "why did it do that!?!?" As a CFI, the correct response to that question is "I dont know...why DID it do that?". And here's his response "uhh...*looks around the plane* I forgot to turn the landing light on?"

                    The runner up happened with a different student. All my students are students, or recent grads from the US Naval Academy. They are very good at doing what you tell them, EXACTLY what you tell them. Including "you need to follow the checklist".

                    So, like most piston powered aircraft, we have 3 different engine start procedures. Cold, Hot, and Flooded. They are listed in the checklist in that order. It was the first flight of the day, so the engine was cold.

                    So we run through the checklist, get the engine fired up. This student continues directly into the Hot start checklist. So I ask "wait, what are you doing?". His response "uhh...the hot start". I pause for about 5 seconds hoping he'd realize what he just said...no such luck. So then I ask "ok....what is the engine doing right now?" "uhh...its running". Another 5 second pause...."ooooh...I get it"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MCM
                      P.S Maxpower... just out of interest, the reason you can't find any low vis approach photos is 1) We're too busy and stressed to take them, and 2) You can't see anything anyway haha. Unfortunately I don't think JP (esp. AJ ) will let me upload a night blackhole photo that I've got... as there is nothing to see!
                      I have one...no approach lights in it though. Approaching an airport surrounded by trees with no PAPI/VASI at night is a good way to give yourself the goosebumps.

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                      • #26
                        Thanks MCM and Joe for both your assesments. I t was rather bizarre what I posted in my reply. I got Owned. Joe, Thanks for the night shot.

                        *MCM, About the part that you're too stressed to take the shot, I wasnt referring any pilots doing the shot, more like a jumpseatpax taking the shot from behind. (well thats what I have seen on the regular shots anyway.
                        Last edited by MaxPower; 2007-10-09, 23:39.
                        Inactive from May 1 2009.

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                        • #27
                          Okay, I don't know if you guys saying there is no way it could confuse a pilot have ever flown before, but just in the little bit of time I've flown, I'll tell you that it is very easy to mistake objects for runways in the air, even in the day time.

                          If I had a nickle for everytime I was approaching SQL in the haze and thought a part of highway 101 was the runway at some point in the approach, I'd have enough to rent Jordan for a night.

                          Even if you have never flown, can you actually argue that doesn't look anything like a runway? Especially in thin cloud cover or poor visibility?
                          sigpic
                          http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=170

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                          • #28
                            Haha no worries MaxPower. Jumpseating in Low Vis is often scarier as the body angle means that you really can't see anything! Low Vis is usually anything under 800m VIS or 600m RVR for us, so it is getting quite low. When you're down to around 200m vis, travelling at 3 miles a minute... you don't see much.

                            Screaming... you mean that not turning the landing lights on doesn't cause the engine to stop? Maybe I shouldn't stress so much when I forget to turn them on now!

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                            • #29
                              I once took evasive action because I thought a plane was coming towards me. Saw something bright shining in my direction and thought it was a landing light. Turned out it was the sun shining off a building or window or something on the ground many miles away. Funny how your eyes mess with you sometimes.

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