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Newark NEAR TOTAL DISASTER!!!!

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  • Newark NEAR TOTAL DISASTER!!!!

    Originally posted by www.internet.com

    NEWARK, N.J. -- A preliminary federal report says two planes nearly collided over Newark Liberty International Airport last month.
    The National Transportation Safety Board report classifies it as a near midair collision.
    The report estimates that a landing Boeing 737 operated by United Airlines was about 200 feet laterally from a Memphis-bound ExpressJet flight that was taking off on an intersecting runway. The planes were about 400 feet apart vertically.
    The ExpressJet pilot can be heard on radio telling air traffic controllers he was keeping the plane's nose down as he climbed. The United flight from San Francisco was ordered to abort its landing.
    The United flight was carrying 155 passengers and six crew. The ExpressJet flight was carrying three crew and 47 passengers.
    [LEFT][COLOR=#000000]
    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz32Gb7vhiM
    This sounds a bit disturbing...a bit more than the standard traffic conflict.

    I'd speculate that a go-around caused the conflict (as opposed to vice versa)- but I thought ATC was supposed to avoid doing takeoffs into the path of a go-around based on the chance that go-arounds do happen occasionally.

    The comment "keeping his nose down as he climbed" reads funny. I get it, but maybe it should read "the ExpressJet told ATC he was keeping his nose down during the departure to avoid the landing plane."


    Edit: WRONG! The were 'vectored' right at each other- the ERJ taking off to the north, and the 737 landing to the west (the west end of the EW runway and the N end of the NS runway are where the runways "cross". http://avherald.com/h?article=473704aa
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    Almost as bad as this one. There needs to be some kind of procedure here to keep these from happening it seems...I guess as it is it's just up to the controller working the intersecting runways to use their own judgement.

    Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
      There needs to be some kind of procedure here to keep these from happening it seems...I guess as it is it's just up to the controller working the intersecting runways to use their own judgement.
      Was it the same controller who was working take-offs and landings?
      Some times they are different, and I think that there we have a starting point.

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
        Was it the same controller who was working take-offs and landings?
        Some times they are different, and I think that there we have a starting point.
        At JFK yes, at EWR, no.

        It appears after a 2nd incident at JFK they decided that landing aircraft basically have priority and departures need to be held until there is no longer the possibility of a conflict.
        Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

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        • #5
          Even in the best of times, EWR is a 'near total disaster'....unfortunately, they are in the midst of a large rehab construction project affecting RWY 04L/22R. Construction in and around the runway will last until December, but the RWY itself is totally closed for APR and MAY. That has forced them into the need to operate simultaneously on 4R/22L and runway 11/29 which led to this little incident. Normally the shorter runway is little used unless the winds are really howling out of the northwest. In addition to setting up this simultaneous intersecting runway pattern, EWR has pretty much been on a permanent ground delay program while the main runway is shut down.
          Parlour Talker Extraordinaire

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
            I guess as it is it's just up to the controller working the intersecting runways to use their own judgement.
            And now, I'm going to have an Evan moment. Aren't there some "constraints and hard procedures with safety buffers" that should have made this much less spectacular.

            I know it can't be 100% accurate and judgement is always involved- but to get this close seems to require some big screw ups to me.

            Don't clear someone for takeoff with someone on a 2-mile final?

            Expressjet XYZ, cleared for immediate takeoff, traffic 2.5 mile final for 29?

            Should the United plane have been more proactive too- and gone around earlier instead of dipping all the way down to mingle with the RJ?

            I sort of think that a "mistake" should be that they got within 1 mile of each other, not 200 feet?

            (my numbers are all guesses).
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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            • #7
              Kiah

              "Simultaneous takeoff clearance on converging runways = 400 ft vertically, 0.8 miles horizontally...

              ...ok, that's more like it- if the pilots are aware it's probably some good ole hand flying and appreciating the beauty of the other aircraft as the pilots gently adjust bank and pitch to avoid each other.

              Still- it would appear some big balls might have dropped as ATC seemed to not be particularly "in control" nor aware of this situation until well after the takeoff clearances.

              Two planes taking off at the same time from Houston's George Bush Intercontinental Airport missed a collision by just a few hundred feet, officials at the Federal Aviation Administration said. The air traffic controller in charge then told the eastbound plane — Flight 601 — to turn to the right, putting the two planes on a parallel trajectory. "You all basically crossed directly over the top of each other," one air traffic controller said.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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              • #8
                Remember, this is Newark, where in 2006 a Continental passenger flight from Orlando landed on taxiway Zulu after the FO hand flew the approach and it was only once on the ground that the Captain realized the error. Lucky because in the evenings, that side of the field is a beehive of activity with all of the cargo and freight operations in constant motion.
                Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

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