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Fifth Estate: Swissair 111 The Untold Story 1998

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  • #46
    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    Now they have these portable devices that get TV and movies. Safer, I assume.
    No! Haven't you seen the portable devices thread?!

    Seriously, IFES's are not dangerous unless you improvise them into your airplane with a bunch of dudes with pliers instead of using certified technicians under the watchful eye of the FAA. Any third party install is a threat for the same reasons.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Evan View Post
      No! Haven't you seen the portable devices thread?!

      Seriously, IFES's are not dangerous unless you improvise them into your airplane with a bunch of dudes with pliers instead of using certified technicians under the watchful eye of the FAA. Any third party install is a threat for the same reasons.
      The airline hands out these things for a small rental. I'm guessing if they thought the plane would go berserk with people using them, they would decide the rental income not worth it.

      And what's the deal with the smileys? What level of maturity is standard here?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
        Do not remember reading that he was a chief instructor. But it is sure hard to do an overweight landing inspection when the aircraft is in a thousand pieces scattered along the ocean bottom!
        Plus 1000 Stars .

        Trolling both sides of the point.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post

          And what's the deal with the smileys? What level of maturity is standard here?
          A bit rich coming from the guy who originally appeared on this forum to throw 'hand grenades of truth' or some other such rubbish.

          Carry on....

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by TheKiecker View Post
            Plus 1000 Stars .

            Trolling both sides of the point.


            ??????????????

            Comment


            • #51
              Parlour talking here- but I get the impression that a LOT of training is to not freak out, not to do someting stupid and not to crash a perfectly ok plane- because many crashes have happened from over reactions.

              And as you train and train and train, I think you wind up with the knarly calm, steady-handed veteran pilot who counteracts the asymetric thrust while calmly confirming the dead engine....the pilot who realizes that the computer has gone nuts and will calmly select a calm power setting and calm altitude (as opposed to pulling back the whole time)...

              On your interview, you are asked what you'd do if your copilot wreaks of alchohol...Marching off the plane and calling ops and demanding a breathalizer is the wrong answer...The right answer is (I think) to calmly analyze the situation further.

              All of this is "be calm, don't jump to conclusions, follow procedures".

              Then, you get faced with some fire warnings...Are you going to dive into action, or keep calm and asess the situation and be sure you don't do some stupid over reaction.

              I recall a DC-10 trip where I swear I smelled burning insulation in row 30-something...It was just the nasty meals warming in the oven. I left the flight attendant call button alone.

              Not discounting Bobby and Gabe's thoughts, but am suggesting that it goes against what's normal and ingrained.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

              Comment


              • #52
                Well, I think that the idea is to train pilots to do things with the urgency that the situation desrves.

                Think stalls, windshear, TCAS and V1 failures.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                  ....the pilot who realizes that the computer has calmly fault-detected and handed over control and will calmly select a calm power setting and calm altitude (as opposed to pulling back the whole time)...
                  Fixed.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    Think stalls.
                    I'm becoming more and more conflicted.

                    I do favor an occasional reminder that pulling up hard and going slow is not that great...

                    BUT

                    Maybe it's simply to do a better job monitoring airspeed...

                    ...and maybe a steam pressure needle that is unusually low on the left side might convey better information than three digits that are always there on the left of the HSI and where the first number you see is 1- just like it always is on approach/departure...

                    Hmmm.
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                      ...and maybe a steam pressure needle that is unusually low on the left side might convey better information than three digits that are always there on the left of the HSI and where the first number you see is 1- just like it always is on approach/departure...

                      Hmmm.
                      Hmmm.

                      When I say the words "professional airline pilot", what is your level of expectation?

                      [ ] follows bright objects and responds to his name.

                      [ ] eats with utensils and ties own shoes.

                      [ ] sorts objects by color and shape.

                      [ ] has passed all CTPL exams, is type rated, can manage the responsibility of piloting a multiengine passenger aircraft.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Evan View Post
                        Hmmm.

                        When I say the words "professional airline pilot", what is your level of expectation?

                        [ ] follows bright objects and responds to his name.

                        [ ] eats with utensils and ties own shoes.

                        [ ] sorts objects by color and shape.

                        [ ] has passed all CTPL exams, is type rated, can manage the responsibility of piloting a multiengine passenger aircraft.
                        It's the last one.

                        But for whatever reason, they sometimes do 30,000 ft inadvertent stalls by doing extremely deliberate and perfect control inputs TO stall, and then they don't watch the airspeed on short final...no, not often, but, sadly the list is very long.

                        Sometimes, the poor souls simply get distracted or have a brain fart.

                        Maybe then the steam gauge has a slight advantage. Stranger things have happened.
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                          I'm becoming more and more conflicted.

                          I do favor an occasional reminder that pulling up hard and going slow is not that great...

                          BUT

                          Maybe it's simply to do a better job monitoring airspeed...

                          ...and maybe a steam pressure needle that is unusually low on the left side might convey better information than three digits that are always there on the left of the HSI and where the first number you see is 1- just like it always is on approach/departure...

                          Hmmm.
                          The concept behind the PFD (not HSI) is not to read the numbers. It's to see the position of the bugs, the COLOR of the numbers, and the barber pole.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                            The concept behind the PFD (not HSI) is not to read the numbers. It's to see the position of the bugs, the COLOR of the numbers, and the barber pole.
                            So, three things to remember.

                            The needle too far to the lower left is just one.

                            (Look, I don't truly belive that flat screen TV's are destroying traditional airmanship (except seeing ITS fly an NDB with the six traditional gauges is probably a thing of beauty) AND EXCEPT WHEN IT THROWS A BLUE SCREEN ERROR OR THE BATTERIES FRY AND THE LIGHTS GO OUT/ EQUIVALENT...

                            ...But to say that the new display is totally 500% perfect and that steam gauges have absolute zero whatsoever attributes...

                            Nah...the steam gauge for airspeed is a nice straight forward display...

                            ...now compare a true old fashioned NDB with say a GPS and moving map display...that's a different discussion.
                            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                              (except seeing ITS fly an NDB with the six traditional gauges is probably a thing of beauty)
                              ...with his head out the window and a cigar clamped in his teeth...

                              One of the important functions of the PFD is the FMA which shows both active and armed modes for every aspect of autoflight and gives the pilot full SA while flying under automation. How do you handle that in the 747-200?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Calmness is a great idea. Expedient action is one outcome hoped for from a calm response. Not to turn into a robot.

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