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  • if i ever win a large powerball jackpot, i'm gonna track evan down and force him to fly a modern airliner. when he crashes (cuz he will) because he made any one of the million mistakes he bitches about every other guy/girl making (cuz he will), i'll just put on his tombstone: "HERE LIES A HUMAN BEING"

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    • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
      if i ever win a large powerball jackpot, i'm gonna track evan down and force him to fly a modern airliner. when he crashes (cuz he will) because he made any one of the million mistakes he bitches about every other guy/girl making (cuz he will), i'll just put on his tombstone: "HERE LIES A HUMAN BEING WHO TRAINED AND TRIED VERY HARD AND MADE A GALLANT EFFORT TO NOT MAKE A MISTAKE."
      Fixed?
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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      • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
        if i ever win a large powerball jackpot, i'm gonna track evan down and force him to fly a modern airliner. when he crashes (cuz he will) because he made any one of the million mistakes he bitches about every other guy/girl making (cuz he will), i'll just put on his tombstone: "HERE LIES A HUMAN BEING"
        Most pilots do not make the mistakes we've been discussing here. This is not "every guy or girl", and this is not how most people fly airplanes. This is a very small micro percentage of aviators in the context of the industry as a whole and the thousands upon thousands of flights that go perfectly fine in all kinds of conditions every single day around the world.

        Sometimes people make a mistake, I think everyone here acknowledges human fallibility. But airplanes usually don't crash from one mistake or even two, but a cascade of them, and that cascade is grossly accelerated by bad habits, poor training, and bad procedure.

        People need to have respect for flying airplanes, you can't just fudge things or be as detached from the job as say, the crew of Asiana 214 or any of these pilots who were so far behind the airplane and what is going on they should not be given that responsibility. You can't fly airplanes like that, it's way too dangerous!

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        • I'll add that, even if you are having a bad day and ARE that far behind the airplane and what is going on, that is why we pay TWO separate people to be up front at the controls!

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          • Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
            Most pilots do not make the mistakes we've been discussing here. This is not "every guy or girl", and this is not how most people fly airplanes. This is a very small micro percentage of aviators in the context of the industry as a whole and the thousands upon thousands of flights that go perfectly fine in all kinds of conditions every single day around the world.

            Sometimes people make a mistake, I think everyone here acknowledges human fallibility. But airplanes usually don't crash from one mistake or even two, but a cascade of them, and that cascade is grossly accelerated by bad habits, poor training, and bad procedure.

            People need to have respect for flying airplanes, you can't just fudge things or be as detached from the job as say, the crew of Asiana 214 or any of these pilots who were so far behind the airplane and what is going on they should not be given that responsibility. You can't fly airplanes like that, it's way too dangerous!
            Indeeeed. A lot of accident (and incident) reports I have read portray the behavior of a person who is essentially unfit for the job. What they reveal is not a 'bad day' but rather a lack of the things that the job responsibility requires. I often point the finger at bad training but certain people cannot ever be trained to have the self-discipline and attention to detail that must be inherent in airline pilots. On a 'good day' they could pass the exams though...

            And yes, when both crew blip out, that points to culture.

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            • Originally posted by Evan View Post
              And yes, when both crew blip out, that points to culture.
              Or three, as it were, with Asiana 214 and Turkish 1951...

              We don't sit in this forum discussing mistakes made by the pilots of Alaska 261 or American 191, or United 232. Certain different judgement calls could have made those turn out differently maybe, but those guys all did the best they could with situations that were basically completely out of control and thrust upon them.

              The most upsetting accidents in the business are those caused by people who flew airplanes incredibly poorly, had multiple chances to correct a situation before it turned irreversible, yet for whatever reason failed to do so.

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              • Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
                Or three, as it were, with Asiana 214 and Turkish 1951...

                We don't sit in this forum discussing mistakes made by the pilots of Alaska 261 or American 191, or United 232. Certain different judgement calls could have made those turn out differently maybe, but those guys all did the best they could with situations that were basically completely out of control and thrust upon them.

                The most upsetting accidents in the business are those caused by people who flew airplanes incredibly poorly, had multiple chances to correct a situation before it turned irreversible, yet for whatever reason failed to do so.
                There's a big difference between stress-induced human factors leading to confused SA and a pilot admitting that he might have touched the TOGA levers "a little" and then failing to take the thing out of TOGA despite two suggestions and a command from the CPT to do so... and then instead fighting the automation like a freaking caveman....

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