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  • #46
    W h a t ? ? ?

    Kiev, the Kremlin, and pro-Russia rebels are scrambling to launch independent investigations into the crash of MH17 as all parties deny involvement.

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    • #47
      Of course Malaysian will survive. There's no fault to be laid at their door. They were flying 2000 feet above any restricted airspace that had been imposed during the current conflict. There were other international airlines flying the route as well.

      The fault lies squarely at Vladimir Putins' feet for supplying missiles to the separatists who militarily speaking are just about qualified to play a video game. The Ukrainians reputedly don't have any missile systems that can reach 33,000 feet.
      Last edited by brianw999; 2014-07-17, 21:23.
      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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      • #48
        Immarsat is reported to have sent the Malaysian officials the ACARS data. What type of ACARS data would assist with determining the hit by a missile?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by James Bond View Post
          Can Malaysia Airlines survive this one?
          I would file for Bankruptcy Protection, in order to protect the Company from the rain shower of lawsuits.
          A Former Airdisaster.Com Forum (senior member)....

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          • #50
            I have to question whether the airline is completely blameless. What safety culture plans a flight right across the middle of the "rebel" area, just 1000 feet above the restricted flight level and just hours and days after several transport aircraft have been downed from at least medium flight levels ? US airlines have been avoiding the immediate area for some time.

            After the MH370 debacle earlier this year, I think the airline has a lot to prove. Probably they will survive, but I wouldn't bet on it. They used to be a good airline franchise, but not so much now.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
              Of course Malaysian will survive. There's no fault to be laid at their door. They were flying 2000 feet above any restricted airspace that had been imposed during the current conflict. There were other international airlines flying the routeas well.

              The fault lies squarely at Vladimir Putins' feet for supplying missiles to the separatists who militarily speaking are just about qualified to play a video game. The Ukrainians reputedly don't have any missile systems that can reach 33,000 feet.
              Strongly disagree! The FAA has not allowed US airlines there for 3 months. Not 1 but 2 planes have been shot down there just this week. It is a WAR ZONE where (in your words) the separatists are just about militarily qualified to play a video game. Individual countries and airlines must assess the risk and make a decision. They failed to do that and ignored the very high probability that something would go wrong.

              Further, just a few hours after MH17 was shot down, they were advised by the French to stay away which all but 2 Russian commercial planes did. Oh, wait, one other airline ignored it all. There went MH21 flying right over Ukraine again on its way from CDG to the same intended destination as MH17. Fortunately this was without incident.

              Malaysian Air has made irrefutably poor decisions which directly injected their AC and pax into a war zone. They lost 295 people and even went back for more. How is that by ANY rationale NOT 100% their fault.

              It's not like it can, you know, fly around the risk.

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              • #52
                Sad sad day .... Whoever is to blame almost 300 innocent people died... at least 154 fellow country man.....

                No words
                “The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire.”

                Erwin

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by retox View Post
                  Malaysian Air has made irrefutably poor decisions which directly injected their AC and pax into a war zone.
                  Many other airlines flew the same route up until today.
                  AirDisaster.com Forum Member 2004-2008

                  Originally posted by orangehuggy
                  the most dangerous part of a flight is not the take off or landing anymore, its when a flight crew member goes to the toilet

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by retox View Post
                    Strongly disagree! The FAA has not allowed US airlines there for 3 months. Not 1 but 2 planes have been shot down there just this week. It is a WAR ZONE where (in your words) the separatists are just about militarily qualified to play a video game. Individual countries and airlines must assess the risk and make a decision. They failed to do that and ignored the very high probability that something would go wrong.
                    The BBC are quoting the Air Transport editor of Flight International as saying the ICAO had declared the route safe - if so, then Malaysia Airlines can't be entirely to blame.

                    Perhaps the FAA banned the airlines that it has jurisdiction over from using that airspace because the pro-Russian rebels might be more likely to take pot shots at US planes than at those belonging to neutral countries.

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                    • #55
                      Plane was 9M-MRD, former special livery:

                      [photoid=5615591]

                      As the 84th 777 built, she first flew exactly 17 years ago, on July 17, 1997.

                      Sources:

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by James Bond View Post
                        Many other airlines flew the same route up until toy.
                        And for 295 people, it helps exactly none that others got through without incident.

                        "Russian-backed rebel groups or Russian forces based in eastern*Ukraine*have allegedly been shooting at planes and helicopters with Buk missiles over the last week in an attempt to achieve mastery of air space." They removed 2 other AC already just this week.

                        I mean, if you are willing to fly through that, what does it take to say, "no, we should prolly turn a lttle to the left here"?

                        Tell you what, let's meet up for lunch and debate it. I know a great little place in the Gaza strip.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by hongmng View Post
                          Plane was 9M-MRD, former special livery:

                          [photoid=5615591]

                          As the 84th 777 built, she first flew exactly 17 years ago, on July 17, 1997.

                          Sources:
                          Aviation website for aircraft and airline information (flight, photo, travel, fleet listing, production list of Airbus Boeing Douglas Embraer Dash, ATR, Sukhoi, Saab...), plane photos for planespotters, flightlog database, aviation news, aviation store.

                          http://www.planespotters.net/Product...a-Airlines.php
                          Photo of MH17 on takeoff:

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by sjwk View Post
                            The BBC are quoting the Air Transport editor of Flight International as saying the ICAO had declared the route safe - if so, then Malaysia Airlines can't be entirely to blame.

                            Perhaps the FAA banned the airlines that it has jurisdiction over from using that airspace because the pro-Russian rebels might be more likely to take pot shots at US planes than at those belonging to neutral countries.
                            Here's the logic. As a father, it is 100% my responsibility to not put my family in danger regardless of what anyone, including the gov't, may declare "safe".

                            Personal responsibility. Malaysian Air should try some.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jpmkam View Post
                              Immarsat is reported to have sent the Malaysian officials the ACARS data. What type of ACARS data would assist with determining the hit by a missile?
                              Lots. There will be no "MISSILE HIT" ACARS message, but many different systems failing at the same time can point to a sudden catastrophic failure.

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                              • #60
                                Restricted Airspace

                                The Restriction of the FAA was only for possible bad fight controlers and russian and ucrainian Controlers giving different orders. And it was only for the Area that claimed itself indipendent fro the Ukraine so only the southern part was included in this area niot the eastern Area where it happend. In Crisis or "War Areas" the Airspace is only closed to the flightlevel that possible Anti Aircraft system can reach. Till Today most Airlines and Authorities thaugt this would be About 12000 feet. That a System that is capable up to 60000 feet got known to military and intelligence services some weeks ago and did not find there way to flight Authorities and Airlines.

                                Greets Mike

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