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Germanwings A320 on BCN-DUS flight crash near Nice, France

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  • Originally posted by Evan View Post
    ...this is actually how it works...
    Exactly what was said about hijackers before 9/11...work with them, they let you land, you negotiate- that's actually how it works.

    (By the way, what I omitted from your post were many other strong, absolute statements...just picked that as the best example)

    I think it's unwise to say that someone (emphasis on one) might like the idea of stealing a plane and crashing into something and is willing to go to significant lengths to access the cockpit.

    What's the phrase- the terrorist only has to be correct once, the prevention has to be correct 100% (or really damn close to 100% to the limits of reason).

    And, I'll re re state that the unlockable door didn't help Egypt Air 990.

    I also remember the debate of whether "Tawkalt ala Allah" was someone resigning themselves to suicide or a poor soul dealing with an awful mechanical issue causing a plane to dive at the ocean.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    • Originally posted by Evan View Post
      I've gotten to know a few bi-polar, manic-depressive and schizophenic people. Things can shift very quickly.
      I agree!!!!! No, wait. In fact I don't. Or do I? I've said perhaps and that's final!!!
      (sorry, could not resist when I saw the "I agree!" response by Phoneman)

      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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      • Originally posted by evan View Post
        here the thing about that... The hardened cockpit is a deterrent. When forming plots, terrorists go for the soft target. Make it hard and they look elsewhere. Unlike blockbuster films, this is actually how it works. Even if terrorists could somehow get a code, how would they be sure it works when planning ahead? And if the codes are generated randomly before each flight, how is that going to happen?

        All that is needed here is a deterrent. The current scheme is overkill. If the planes on 9/11 had just a standard door lock and a reinforced door and the pilots knew it was fatal to open them, 9/11 would have never been attempted.
        At last. Someone who says it how it is
        If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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        • Originally posted by Quench View Post
          He is not allowed unless you have signed a waver. Which you have to do for some jobs. I am surprised commercial pilot is not one of them.

          If you have a mental illness and are receiving prescription medication for it, it is much harder to detect.
          In my employment as a paramedic I had to sign a document allowing my employer to access my GP held medical records. My GP was duty bound to report any medical condition that would have an adverse effect on my ability to do my job according to law. This basically meant that the GP was required to report issues that might affect my driving and report judgmental issues that might affect my ability to safely handle and administer drugs.
          There's no such thing as a private life in the ambulance service.
          If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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          • Originally posted by Peter Kesternich View Post
            There is definitely room for improvement, but there will always remain a risk... Let's say that a doctor is required to report a disease/illness for certain people in certain jobs to their employer. Chances are that people will try to self-diagnose and self-medicate if they suspect the illness will cause them to lose their jobs or get grounded... in that case, they would start to not even go to the doctor...
            Or not tell the doctor that you work in a "class X" job.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • Originally posted by 3WE View Post
              And, I'll re re state that the unlockable door didn't help Egypt Air 990.
              Yes, you re re re re re re re stated it too much already.
              But:
              - The captain of Egipt Air didn't realize that the other one trying to crash the plane. Otherwise he could have asked for help and surely he would have gotten hundreds of volunteers.
              - The FO was indeed alone when he made the final decision to execute the suicide. I think it's much harder to start to execute it if there is another person in the cockpit.
              - The Airbus has side-sticks. A full push + a full pull equals to zero in dual input, and you have the "priority" button. Gives a lot of time to get help from the cabin (if you realize that the other one is trying to murder you in the first place).

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

              Comment


              • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                Let's instead ALL focus our energies on how to come to a solution that will prevent this ever happening again.
                Auto GCAS?

                Would, however, take a long time to implement.

                Comment


                • Google translation from an Argentinian newspaper. I hope it's not true:

                  Lubitz suffered bulling and harassment of fellow airline employees, as reported by the British newspaper DailyMail. "Andy Tomato" was the nickname that some pairs called the young man of 28, referring to his past in the same company as flight attendant. "He was very ambitious, but it was considered second class because he had been an assistant in the passenger cabin," a friend told the German newspaper Bild..

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                    Maybe on the Airbus but not on the Boeing. I have no experience with the Airbus doors but I do have a bit with the Boeing doors. I have only flown 117 hours this month in one already!
                    I maintain aircraft of both manufacturers, they are basically the same.


                    On the Boeing doors there is NO WAY to open that door from the outside once the deadbolt had been thrown short of a fireman's ax.
                    Ok

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                    • How long until we have a terrorist lawfully armed and flying an airliner (as an airline pilot and flight deck officer) locking himself in the cockpit and then...?

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                        How long until we have a terrorist lawfully armed and flying an airliner (as an airline pilot and flight deck officer) locking himself in the cockpit and then...?
                        Could happen any day, but the same could said be for a bus driver or train driver, or person in a car, or a person with a gun in a coffee shop, this list is infinite.

                        But with a mandated second person in the flight deck at all time adds a layer of protection even if to make it a little bit harder to carry out an act, or at least slow it down and have a fighting chance.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                          Google translation from an Argentinian newspaper. I hope it's not true:
                          What kind of sick person would make that up? German's do love to shame. It's probably true.

                          How long until we have a terrorist lawfully armed and flying an airliner (as an airline pilot and flight deck officer) locking himself in the cockpit and then...?
                          I've always opposed the idea of arming pilots. Bullets do not get along well with pressure hulls. Typical American cowboy solution.

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                          • Why don't we just add a doorman?

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                            • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              I agree!!!!! No, wait. In fact I don't. Or do I? I've said perhaps and that's final!!!
                              (sorry, could not resist when I saw the "I agree!" response by Phoneman)
                              Veddy Funny!!!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                                How long until we have a terrorist lawfully armed and flying an airliner (as an airline pilot and flight deck officer) locking himself in the cockpit and then...?
                                You know where this is leading, right?

                                Let's just do away with pilots, and let Otto and ground-based monitoring folks operate the aircraft.

                                We could put an emergency pilot on board with a secret pass code (that would require a second FA secret pass code and a procedure to clear it with control-central in operations, but the pilots would be so out of practice...
                                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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