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Malaysia Airlines Loses Contact With 777 en Route to Beijing

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  • Originally posted by fishinmission5369 View Post
    I thought I heard someone singing "Kumbay-Ya"...
    Haven't sung that since I was in 3rd grade. Just don't see the point in the constant bickering.

    Comment


    • Really?

      Compared to how the families of those lost feel, having your ego bruised on a forum is about as unimportant as it gets.

      I'm willing to accept any insult when my posts deserve it, especially from true experienced folk. Its a forum.

      Comment


      • Guess one would consider me a "Lurker"...I agree with you 100%..Sad part is..from my own experience with internet forums...that kind of behavior is going to happen....While I take it with a grain of salt..I also accept it as it is. Albeit..as you mention..a bit tiring.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
          let's figure this sinking/crushing out...

          to sink, the plane would have to fill with water. if filled with water, pressure inside would equal pressure outside. hull would not crush.
          OK I deleted the previous post and will explain instead.

          There are fuel tanks, intact after this successful ditching into the ocean. Because the wings would most certainly stay attached to the aircraft! Hydraulic tanks, the hydraulic accumulator, oxygen bottles, fire bottles, all of the fuel and hydraulic lines etc. These would all implode as the "fully intact" airframe sunk into 440+ atmospheres of water. This would breach parts of the hull and some of the items that float would eventually make it to the surface.


          Hope that make the rest of you happy, I hate to ruffle feathers.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
            I am not so sure how well a 777 would ditch on the Hudson. How do you think it will do where there are usually 30' seas?

            If it hit the water (Which is as compressible as concrete) at 500 knots, the largest piece will be about the size of a basketball. Other than some luggage, seat cushions and the like, the rest is now laying with Davey Jones.
            What about the vertical stabilizer? We have seen how the Airbus fin comes off on impact. I wonder if the attachments on the B777 are similar and would also fail under extreme deceleration, releasing the fin. I also expect the fin would float the way the Airbus fins did. The B777 uses a CFRP composite fin which may have a similar bouyancy to the Airbus designs.

            Comment


            • Look, I know that most of you are not professional pilots on this forum.
              And although a couple here have mentioned pprune as a better place for that kind of information, I am also a member of that site and actually find the conversation and comments here better. I would venture to say that the percentage of "real" pilots there is not that much higher than here. I try to keep it as civil as I can but sometimes with the really off the wall stuff, and some of the regulars (Mr TeeVee says he is an attorney here in Miami so if so he is a professional agitator) do nothing but try and stir the pot. On the other side of the coin there in Brian, almost always the voice of reason, Gabriel, we have had quite a few PM's back and forth. And although he is only a private pilot he is very knowledgeable and knows how to do his research. Evan and 3we that I believe are also not pilots but know how to Google stuff first before they post to present a valid point. I do my best to give a perspective from someone that has been flying most of my life. Large jet aircraft for the last 20 years. And I still fly little ones also (I own an original 1946 Piper J-3 Cub) so I respect the light airplane drivers. I do find it hard sometimes to hold back if I think what is posted it just completely off the wall. So please forgive me if I offended anyone.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                What about the vertical stabilizer? We have seen how the Airbus fin comes off on impact. I wonder if the attachments on the B777 are similar and would also fail under extreme deceleration, releasing the fin. I also expect the fin would float the way the Airbus fins did. The B777 uses a CFRP composite fin which may have a similar bouyancy to the Airbus designs.

                I can't answer that one Evan I have no knowledge of what the tail is made of. I am sure with a few minutes of Google you will find the answer for us.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                  I can't answer that one Evan I have no knowledge of what the tail is made of. I am sure with a few minutes of Google you will find the answer for us.
                  Google B777 right now and all you get are crazy theories about MH 370. But I have actual articles on the B777 design and the tail fin is formed from a Boeing designed CFRP (carbon-fiber reinforced polymer). It should float. The question is: would it survive in one piece? That would depend on how the a/c struck the water, but if it struck at a high vertical speed it's probably the best hope we have. Remember the fin was found intact from AF447 when little else was left on the surface.

                  Comment


                  • Goodfellow.....20 years experience.......but interestingly no claim of previous employment or aircraft types flown !
                    I've got 19 years flying experience.....all the way from the first issue of Microsoft flight simulator !!
                    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                      Goodfellow.....20 years experience.......but interestingly no claim of previous employment or aircraft types flown !
                      I've got 19 years flying experience.....all the way from the first issue of Microsoft flight simulator !!

                      My my, someone is up awfully early!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                        Goodfellow.....20 years experience.......but interestingly no claim of previous employment or aircraft types flown !
                        I've got 19 years flying experience.....all the way from the first issue of Microsoft flight simulator !!
                        I sent the guy a PM Brian, a Canadian private pilot with an instrument and multi-engine ratings. Used to fly a Cessna 310. Making statements and allowing himself to be quoted as an "expert" that are way out of his league in my opinion.

                        Comment


                        • Just going to breakfast in my Sri Lankan hotel !

                          I'm sitting on the shores of the Indian Ocean right now. Perfect weather, think I'll hire a rowing boat later and do a bit of searching.
                          If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                            Just going to breakfast in my Sri Lankan hotel !

                            I'm sitting on the shores of the Indian Ocean right now. Perfect weather, think I'll hire a rowing boat later and do a bit of searching.
                            OK you cracked me up!! I'm going to bed 2200 here.

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Evan View Post
                              What about the vertical stabilizer? We have seen how the Airbus fin comes off on impact. I wonder if the attachments on the B777 are similar and would also fail under extreme deceleration, releasing the fin. I also expect the fin would float the way the Airbus fins did. The B777 uses a CFRP composite fin which may have a similar bouyancy to the Airbus designs.
                              I think most of the aft section rear of the pressure bulkhead is composite. With what survives intact, what floats, and what sinks would really be determined by how it hits and how hard it hits.
                              The floating fin was a big neon sign for the AF crash as it provided the investigators a heap of information which as you know they determined the failure mode and also the attitude of impact. If I recall the galleys they found gave them as much into also.

                              If only they will be so lucky this time also.

                              Right now the news is reporting that special search equipment has arrived in Perth to start looking for the FDR pingers

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Theoddkiwi View Post
                                The floating fin was a big neon sign for the AF crash as it provided the investigators a heap of information which as you know they determined the failure mode and also the attitude of impact. If I recall the galleys they found gave them as much into also.
                                Actually, they found parts of the "4 corners" of the plane relatively close and that gave them the hint that the plane reached the crash site largely intact. Then the failure mode of almost all things (including persons but not the fin) was in a downward direction, and that gave them the hint that the attitude was almost level. Small differences in secondary loads showed that the tail hit first, giving the nose-up attitude. The fin failed in the forward direction when it kept going after the fuselage stopped. The whole picture was: wings almost level, nose slightly high, some forward speed and a steep descent angle with a high vertical speed: A stall. All this was within the first days, perhaps a couple of weeks. We discussed for 2 years if the plane had stalled all the way down of if it was a last nose-up attempt at the last second. Only the FDR and CVR could tell that. "But I have been pulling up all the time!"

                                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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