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Malaysia Airlines Loses Contact With 777 en Route to Beijing

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  • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    Does it really matter weather it is dark or light if you are going to slam it into the ocean?
    Especially if everybody (maybe you included) is already dead.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • Originally posted by Brainsys View Post
      BB might get away with it - with only pallets to destroy he can stay at the controls.

      Unfortunately, We also fly passengers. I try like hell to stay off of the pax flights, but sometimes get tagged for one.

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      • I am not sure how it works for you at your company MCM, and I surely do not know what the policy is at Malaysian. But at Atlas , it is my prerogative to "squirt" on a little extra if I deem it necessary for winds, weather or expected delays. Now when I say a little extra, I mean a couple of thousand kgs. If I asked for an additional 10000 kgs I would a, need a new weight and balance, b, have some explaining to do to the chief pilot and the director of flight operations.
        Fairly similar at mine BoeingBobby, which is why I guessed the figure that I did.

        An even partially awake F/O would get a little intrigued if you added 10t and refused to tell the load controllers, which makes the "more fuel on board than known" scenario unlikely, save for "mum and the kids" fuel.

        As for Captains having simulators - I wouldn't read all that much into it just yet. The Captain was, I believe, known to have a real aviation passion. He is certainly not the only pilot out there with a home simulator set up, which he probably doesn't use to practice flying 777s.

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        • Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
          Would an experienced pilot have a good idea where to put it down to frustrate attempts to find it? By "put it down" I am including a deliberate water crash.
          On the third day after the airplane "vanished" and no terrorist organization had claimed responsibility for it, I felt that this had to be a deliberate act by one of the pilots. I Googled deepest part of the Indian Ocean and came up with this.


          The deepest part of the Indian ocean is the Diamantina Deep, located in the Diamantina Trench, south west of Perth, Western Australia. It depth was recorded at 8,047 metres (26,401 feet) deep.




          It took less that 2 minutes. Now how hard is it to punch those coordinates, 35.0000° S, 104.0000° E into the FMS and hit the execute button. Sit back, say a few prayers to Allah on the way and push the nose over and.... Now Brian brought up a really good point that I had not thought about. If the guy was not only a mad man but also a pussy, he might have just left the aircraft un-pressurized and taken his mask off as well.

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          • A friend just emailed me this, I saw this guy Goodfellow's post last week. Another "expert" on the loose!

            EXCLUSIVE: The 777-200ER Boeing aircraft used on the ill-fated flight has a maximum service ceiling of 43,000 feet, but at this altitude hypoxia would quickly set in.

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            • after my rant the other night i have to say i'm impressed with the way this thread has gone...BB i know i didn't say anything that would bother you...and i dont know what a 'nigel' is...i suppose its something to do with being new...and not being a pilot even in the most remote sense of the word....but your recent posts have been thoughtful..and insightful...and you've even been agreeing with people....MCM...thanks for the heads up...i'm not a troll...and was perhaps just being a bit arsey.....but respect breeds respect and its in short supply here....but for my rudeness i'm honestly sorry....it wont happen again....so

              let me ask this....we probably know this wasnt a fire or other event...cause what could happen in the cockpit that could disable the plane's comms so bad but still leave it to fly for 7 hours....probably nothing....so it has to be a pilot thing right like i said...though it now seems my thoughts on motive where ill thought out....but.....murdercide....suicide....whatever....why let it fly for 7 hours?? suicide is 90% about attention seeking.....why not decompress....then crash it right there 10 minutes later??

              i think there has to be other factors....though its probably obvious we'll never find out what.

              again...thanks for not getting me kicked out!

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              • Originally posted by Dispatch Dog View Post
                But wasn't that the copilot's voice saying goodnight, after some systems were switched off?
                I don't think that has been established. I think that was an assumption made but some because the last ACARS report was before the last Communication with the crew. But ACARS only reports, I think, at 30min intervals, so it just means it was turned off within 30 mins of the last report.
                I am pretty sure the transponder was shut down after the communication, otherwise you would think the Controller would have pointed out that his transponder had stopped transmitting.

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                • Originally posted by andyb99 View Post
                  after my rant the other night i have to say i'm impressed with the way this thread has gone...BB i know i didn't say anything that would bother you...and i dont know what a 'nigel' is...i suppose its something to do with being new...and not being a pilot even in the most remote sense of the word....but your recent posts have been thoughtful..and insightful...and you've even been agreeing with people....MCM...thanks for the heads up...i'm not a troll...and was perhaps just being a bit arsey.....but respect breeds respect and its in short supply here....but for my rudeness i'm honestly sorry....it wont happen again....so

                  let me ask this....we probably know this wasnt a fire or other event...cause what could happen in the cockpit that could disable the plane's comms so bad but still leave it to fly for 7 hours....probably nothing....so it has to be a pilot thing right like i said...though it now seems my thoughts on motive where ill thought out....but.....murdercide....suicide....whatever....why let it fly for 7 hours?? suicide is 90% about attention seeking.....why not decompress....then crash it right there 10 minutes later??

                  i think there has to be other factors....though its probably obvious we'll never find out what.

                  again...thanks for not getting me kicked out!

                  Apology accepted, (insert group hug here while singing a verse of Kumbaya)


                  Go back and read my post about the suicide (murdercide) ( I love this word by the way Brian,I give you full credit for it) way back in the beginning of the thread.

                  If and this is yet to be released, there is a life insurance policy on the pilot, and the insurance company can prove suicide, they will not pay out.

                  If they never recover the FDR or CVR and putting the airplane in close to 30000 feet of water is going to make it quite difficult, no proof, insurance pays the beneficiary.

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                  • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    If you go to the link you'll find the mentioned documents prepared by Inmarsat and the AAIB.
                    It's a really interesting read, and quite brilliant work.
                    They have estimated a ground speed of 400-450 kts but are working on refining that figure.

                    Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.


                    Pprune has some very interesting discussions on how the aircraft could have flown on its heading and the differences between flying on HDG mode or via an FMS point in relation to constant heading or creat circle. The route it took to get to its final point could indicate if it was ghost plane or someone being in control
                    With a refined speed figure they will be able to really refine the final location


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                    • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                      Does it really matter weather it is dark or light if you are going to slam it into the ocean?
                      If the motive was to disappear, leaving a lot of debris on the surface might be avoided by doing a Sully and getting the plane down in one piece and letting it sink without trace.

                      Far-fetched I know, but I think the truth will be stranger.

                      Like many, I am struggling to comprehend the mindset of someone who deliberately takes 238 other people to their doom.

                      The course changes really suggest deliberation, otherwise the Boeing AD on the fuz around the antenna might be a more plausible scenario. I'm betting some at Boeing are examining the potential scenarios of a fuz crack and loss of pressure just in case, but it doesn't explain the transponder being turned off.

                      I have been unrealistically hoping for some miraculous revelation that the various governments had been in secret negotiations with some bad guys for the release of the passengers, but this looks grim, and beyond my comprehension. Much like EA990.

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                      • Originally posted by Dispatch Dog View Post
                        If the motive was to disappear, leaving a lot of debris on the surface might be avoided by doing a Sully and getting the plane down in one piece and letting it sink without trace.

                        I am not so sure how well a 777 would ditch on the Hudson. How do you think it will do where there are usually 30' seas?

                        If it hit the water (Which is as compressible as concrete) at 500 knots, the largest piece will be about the size of a basketball. Other than some luggage, seat cushions and the like, the rest is now laying with Davey Jones. Even if they were able to put it down in one piece, and the airplane sunk fairly intact, eventually those same items would float to the surface. As the airframe sunk the tremendous pressure would break up the hull.

                        So Ernie Borgnine and the rest are not down there with the APU running having a good time.

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                        • let's figure this sinking/crushing out...

                          to sink, the plane would have to fill with water. if filled with water, pressure inside would equal pressure outside. hull would not crush.

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                          • Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                            I am not so sure how well a 777 would ditch on the Hudson. How do you think it will do where there are usually 30' seas?

                            If it hit the water (Which is as compressible as concrete) at 500 knots, the largest piece will be about the size of a basketball. Other than some luggage, seat cushions and the like, the rest is now laying with Davey Jones. Even if they were able to put it down in one piece, and the airplane sunk fairly intact, eventually those same items would float to the surface. As the airframe sunk the tremendous pressure would break up the hull.

                            So Ernie Borgnine and the rest are not down there with the APU running having a good time.
                            Again, just wondering down a very unlikely avenue of reasoning:
                            If the motive was to make it disappear, then a 'soft' landing at 140kts might have been attempted.
                            But to support your thinking, even at 140 water is very unforgiving and unless the sea was dead calm, I also think it would have gone the way the hijacked Ethiopian 767 went, even if it was wings level.

                            Sully's A320 stayed afloat for a very long time, even with the doors open, there are still pockets of air that get trapped, and that was with a fair bit of fuel in the tanks.

                            On the other hand, watching the SFO Asianna 777 stay almost in one piece after a cartwheel... and the LHR BA, you have to admire the strength of that airframe.

                            At 500kts? yup, I'm with you BB

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                            • Jeez, how about we all stop beating each other over the head.

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                              • I thought I heard someone singing "Kumbay-Ya"...

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