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UPS Cargo Jet Crashes Near Birmingham Shuttlesworth International Airport

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  • #76
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    About AVION1
    Biography
    My first solo flight: 18 years old....and now I am 49 years old..!!...more than 30 years flying!
    Occupation
    Chief Inspector, FAA Accountable Manager. Licenses: A&P, Repairman Certificate, Private Pilot ASEL


    O.K. Lets see, over 30 years and still a private pilot with single engine only.
    No commercial, instrument, or multi.


    But you are an expert aren't you!
    Boeing Bobby: You're an assclown.
    This man has quite a lot of experience....fixing shit you broke!
    Stand back everyone! BB's attempt to embarrass someone gives him quite a big....
    Oh, that's it? Should have known the size of this based on the size of his ego.

    I do work for a domestic US airline, and it should be noted that I do not represent such airline, or any airline. My opinions are mine alone, and aren't reflective of anything but my own knowledge, or what I am trying to learn. At no time will I discuss my specific airline, internal policies, or any such info.

    Comment


    • #77
      So I come back in here, to relax, pick up on the conversation for a minute.

      As I read on, I found I had stumbled onto the game:
      MINE-IS-BIGGER-THAN-YOURS, aka Pilot God Complex.
      Are we really at the point where we must scan in our credentials?

      Boeing Bobby...everyone gets it. You are the oldest surviving pilot in this hemisphere and you know everything. You will correct everyone on anything they say.

      We should just rename the forum.

      Behave guys!!
      I do work for a domestic US airline, and it should be noted that I do not represent such airline, or any airline. My opinions are mine alone, and aren't reflective of anything but my own knowledge, or what I am trying to learn. At no time will I discuss my specific airline, internal policies, or any such info.

      Comment


      • #78
        So, we're kind of sunk until we get some FDR data or perhaps CVR information.

        If this is truly an Asiana-botched-hand-flown-landing what does that mean?

        You are screaming in on a diving approach (with every intent of finishing it in a stabilized manner)- and the pilots have got to be saying, lets be sure that 1) we maintain airspeed on short final and 2) have the autothrotles doing what we really want them to do- we sure as heck don't want to repeat!

        At this point, it seems incomprehensible that this would be the cause...then again- plane crashes are rare enough that they usually are 'incomprehensible'.
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

        Comment


        • #79
          Any more bad mouthing will be deleted and bans will be considered. You should consider yourselves to have ALL been warned.

          The habit of slagging individuals in our forums will be stopped. If you want a slanging match with someone then go to Facebook with it !
          If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

          Comment


          • #80
            I'm going to tempt fate and say that Bobby did ask a valid question and that Avion is refusing to answer it.

            Can we be big boys and girls, and engague in dialogue and answer such questions, as well as accepting and acknwoledging some of the grief that is dished out, instead of only being able to dish it out?
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by snydersnapshots View Post
              Several things will cause the GPWS to make noise, some normal (altitude callouts on approach for example: "500", "400", "300"... etc. Some of these are selectable by the individual operator) and of course the abnormal callouts that I'm sure you're talking about.

              ....
              Thanks Snyder that entire description was VERY informative (!). Naive me thought that GPWS just blurted out 'too low pull up' if the plane got too close to terrain - and I'm glad to be better informed about how much more nuanced the system is as you described it.

              Comment


              • #82
                In this UPS incident, my mind keeps returning to that airbus air-show incident - what 20 years back - when the PF didnt spool up in time and ended up in the woods after doing a low slow flyby over the airfield. Shades of Asiana too - although it doesnt seem (conjecture) that the UPS jet impacted nose high as were both the airbus airshow and Asiana jets (of course UPS hit an embankment so perhaps hard to tell).

                FDR and CVR will be telling, as others suggested.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                  I'm going to tempt fate and say that Bobby did ask a valid question and that Avion is refusing to answer it.

                  Can we be big boys and girls, and engague in dialogue and answer such questions, as well as accepting and acknwoledging some of the grief that is dished out, instead of only being able to dish it out?

                  Thank you. In fact all I did was ask a question.

                  Comment


                  • #84


                    No engine failures. Pieces of wood and dirt found in one engine.

                    So it was producing thrust at least until it hit trees.

                    Longer runway was closed for work on the lights.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Parlour talk moment...

                      Was this crash pre-dawn?

                      I'm thinking of the black hole effect which unfortunately seems to happen from time to time. You have only runway lights in a sea of blackness (didn't see approach lights depicted on the approach plates, AND we have the photographs of the barren field) and you think you are on a good approach path, but you get low.

                      (Yes, you are supposed to watch the altimiter too, but tell that to all of the pilots who have crashed before)
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                        Parlour talk moment...

                        Was this crash pre-dawn?
                        3WE - The crash occurred around 5:11am local time (source: NTSB).

                        Sunrise on the 14th in Birmingham was at 6:09am, and Nautical/Civil twilights were at 5:11am/5:42am respectively. Since there was light rain almost surely it was overcast and perhaps kind of "soupy" 'steamy' as it can be in the summer.

                        Experts here might know the ceilings/visibility - but given the clock times above...although it probably wasnt pitch black out ... it also likely wasnt great visibility (as you suggest) given the inclimate weather and the horizon not well distinguishable based on the 5:11 (nautical) twilight having just occurred in overcast soupy conditions.

                        They perhaps might have had decent view of the runway (lights) but not been able to distinguish clearly the rising terrain in front of them from the horizon and by the time lumber started entering the turbines it was too late.

                        Again I am no expert I am merely pontificating.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                          ...I'm thinking of the black hole effect which unfortunately seems to happen from time to time. You have only runway lights in a sea of blackness...
                          Ok...definately good conditions for the black hole effect, but I'm reading that there's a PAPI visual approach slope indicator on the runway, which should be a fairly obvious indicator if you are too low.

                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Looking at some of the engine pictures I would have expected more impact damage to the fan blades on that PW engine (PW4158?). Most normal approaches are flown with a bit of power on and even at approach idle, fan speed should be somewhere around 30% N1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would expect impact at that speed to take out all the fan blades.

                            IMHO.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Myndee View Post
                              Behave guys!!
                              Awwww c'mon Mom, do we have to?! That's no fun!...
                              The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by obmot View Post
                                Thanks Snyder that entire description was VERY informative (!). Naive me thought that GPWS just blurted out 'too low pull up' if the plane got too close to terrain - and I'm glad to be better informed about how much more nuanced the system is as you described it.
                                You're very welcome. Gabriel gave some good additional information in a later post as well. I used to know all the modes when I was all studied up for the systems test on the airplane, but I brain-dumped a lot of specifics; if the thing goes off I'm not too worried about knowing what mode the warning is coming from. I figure it's more important to react to what the thing is saying.

                                Your thought about the way the system operated was accurate for the very early models. I remember my dad talking about them soon after they came out. As time has progressed, they've added a lot more bells and whistles (no pun intended) to the system.
                                The "keep my tail out of trouble" disclaimer: Though I work in the airline industry, anything I post on here is my own speculation or opinion. Nothing I post is to be construed as "official" information from any air carrier or any other entity.

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