Hard to land at Oskosh??

[ErwinS]

2 incidents yesterday. First this F-16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUei3kAcl9s&feature=related

and afterwards this Fury

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCr9k8jow5w&feature=related

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/07/28/360110/oshkosh-f-16-damaged-after-runway-overrun.html

A Lockheed Martin F-16 was damaged after overrunning the runway on 28 July at the AirVenture fly-in in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
Details of the incident were not immediately available.
The F-16C belonging to the 100th Fighter Sqd of the Alabama Air National Guard rolled off the north end of Runway 36 at Wittman Regional Airport. The nose gear appeared to collapse after the F-16C continued onto the grass. The impact also cracked the single-engine fighter’s nose cone.

[Deadstick]

Glad no one was hurt, but I'd hate to get the ass chewing that F-16 pilot is going to get.

[KGEG]

I can't recall when there hasn't been an incident at Oshkosh at least in the last few years anyway. Was it last year there was an issue with the A380 there, and a plane crashed too because I remember it was a guy associated with NASCAR, Jack Roush. And the year before also I think there was a crash but I can't remember for sure.

Edit: The A380 thing was 2009 and it wasn't too bad, not much of an incident at all really, just a hard landing. *shrugs* Although I remember reading once they looked it over thoroughly after landing to make sure it was ok. Can't remember if they found anything though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yi9C8NE3Ek

[Taliesin]

The A380 thing was 2009 and it wasn't too bad, not much of an incident at all really, just a hard landing. *shrugs* Although I remember reading once they looked it over thoroughly after landing to make sure it was ok. Can't remember if they found anything though.

They didnt. The plane was thoroughly inspected and declared ready to fly. It didnt undergo any repairs or overhaul afterwards

[Michael Wolf]

Given the number of airplanes that land in Oshkosh during the AirVenture week it would have been statistically improbable not to have any incidents. Every single year something happens.

P.S. Shame I missed the event this year again, hoping to be there next year, after missing 2010 and 2011.

P.S. Really sad to see the Fury getting some damage, it being the only remaining Fury in airworthy condition.

[photoid=6324803]

[Michael Wolf]

I can't recall when there hasn't been an incident at Oshkosh at least in the last few years anyway. Was it last year there was an issue with the A380 there, and a plane crashed too because I remember it was a guy associated with NASCAR, Jack Roush. And the year before also I think there was a crash but I can't remember for sure.

The A380 had a hard landing in 2009, and yes, not much of an incident, just a hard landing. And the NASCAR guy crashed in 2010.

In 2008 I have witnessed a small Piper losing airspeed just after takeoff and slamming back onto the ground, luckily the pilot walked away from the crash. I think there was something else that year with some fatalities but I haven't seen it.

In 2009, apart from the A380, I only remember a minor incident with this little guy doing a 180 degree turn (from a wind gust I assume) during a takeoff roll.

[Fear_of_Flying]

Given the number of airplanes that land in Oshkosh during the AirVenture week it would have been statistically improbable not to have any incidents.

Really? How many airplanes take off and land at, say, O'Hare Airport every week? How many incidents do they have? How many times do two airplanes in a row skid off the end of the runway? And aren't those considered accidents when that happens and the plane is damaged?

[Michael Wolf]

Really? How many airplanes take off and land at, say, O'Hare Airport every week? How many incidents do they have? How many times do two airplanes in a row skid off the end of the runway? And aren't those considered accidents when that happens and the plane is damaged?

O'Hare commenced roughly 950.000 aircraft operations in 2010, which is somewhere around 18.000 takeoffs and landings per week, i.e. 9.000 unique landings, and given that a good amount of those are based in ORD, and land there several times a day, multiple times a week, that comes down to 5-7 thousand unique airplanes (at best, quite probable the that the real number is even smaller). Oshkosh AirVenture accepts over 10.000 during the week - you think they call their tower the "world's busiest control tower" for no reason? And most of the aircraft there are privately owned small aircraft (many of which are older than me) that do not necessarily receive the maintenance of such quality that would match that of commercial airliners. And a great deal of those privately owned aircraft are experimental and homebuilt aircraft. EAA stands for Experimental Aviation Association after all.

Now get over ten thousand of homebuilt and/or vintage airplanes with a mix of all the other ones in one place for a few days and tell me what is so improbable about one or two incidents happening during that time.

[Fear_of_Flying]

Now get over ten thousand of homebuilt and/or vintage airplanes with a mix of all the other ones in one place for a few days and tell me what is so improbable about one or two incidents happening during that time.

Probably nothing. Mind you, I don't think the F-16 or the Fury are experimental aircraft, and to have two airplanes overrun the runway in one day seems unusual for any airport. In any event, I think the OP was just trying to come up with a catchy subject.

[Michael Wolf]

Probably nothing. Mind you, I don't think the F-16 or the Fury are experimental aircraft, and to have two airplanes overrun the runway in one day seems unusual for any airport. In any event, I think the OP was just trying to come up with a catchy subject.

The Fury is classified by the FAA as Experimental and it is privately owned. Certainly the F-16 isn't. And whatever the reason was, I still think it is just statistical probability of something happening when a tiny airport with 10 small props and 1 business jet a day, turns into the world's busiest airport in a few hours. People screw up, it's as simple as that.

[Gabriel]

The probability that an F-16 and a Fury did overrun the runway at Oshkosh on the same day is 100%.

[3WE]

Is there a hidden "why" in this thread.

The 8000 ft runway is a little short (maybe that had something to do with the Airbus drilling itself and the over runs), but then again, it's not that short.

As to incidents with small planes, it may be a sad reflection that private pilots and their airplanes have a tendency to be less competent. The insurance company sure says so.

Not a good explanation for professionally flown planes, but, then again, some of those old warbirds have been singled out as being flown by odd people.

[brianw999]

You also have to remember that not only does Oshkosh handle 10,000 movements in one week they also do it a lot of the time by dividing the runway into three distinct parts and landing three aircraft at the same time. The first aircraft lands on the far third of the runway, the second on the middle third and the last of the three on the first third. The three landing zones are defined by coloured discs painted on the runway and incoming pilots are required to land on a particular colour. Not just before it, not just after it....precisely ON it. Virtually the entire week is one big spot landing competition.
...and before anyone spits their dummy...the thirds rule is obviously suspended for fast movers and big aircraft.

The example of Chicago O'Hare not having any accidents against the couple or three every year at Oshkosh doesn't hold water. O'Hare handles modern, well maintained aircraft flown by high hours pilots under specific approach parameters....

.....Oshkosh handles anything of any vintage flown by probably less experienced pilots in a very complicated approach and landing regime. It's hardly surprising there are a couple of accidents. Personally speaking I think that two or three is a low number and reflects how well the ATC people work there.

Listen to this and tell me that you'd like this guys job !!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnIIkL4AJNc

....and that's just 5mins 40secs worth of his day.

[Michael Wolf]

Yep, exactly my point, Brian. They also use the taxiway parallel to rwy 18/36 as a second runway for massive arrivals. That is one of my favorite things to do, sit by the runway under some dude's Cessna wing and listen to the ATC and watch the arrivals. "Red taildragger on right base, rock your wings", "keep it going to the yellow dot, keep it going, yellow dot for you", etc. And watching hundreds of small props and warbirds arrive in just a few hours, if not minutes, is always a special treat for us, Brian, isn't it?

This is another thing about Oshkosh, not only they use the "dot" system to divide the two parallel runways into sections, they also can't use radar approaches, as all of the arrivals are VFR arrivals. There are specific instructions for the pilots to follow landmarks and huge arrows on the ground, and pick an aircraft ahead to follow, and follow it at a certain rate of speed and distance. In no way this can be compared to O'Hare or any other airport. Oshkosh is unique in this regard.

What a shame I had to miss Oshkosh again this year. It's a very addictive event, it's the only place where you can feel the "spirit of aviation" in the air. And if you go there once, it's really hard not to go there again, and again, and again. And I've visited the town even when it wasn't the EAA week, just to visit my friends there and just be around there, one of my favorite places in the world, all of central and northern Wisconsin.

[Fear_of_Flying]

This is another thing about Oshkosh, not only they use the "dot" system to divide the two parallel runways into sections, they also can't use radar approaches, as all of the arrivals are VFR arrivals. There are specific instructions for the pilots to follow landmarks and huge arrows on the ground, and pick an aircraft ahead to follow, and follow it at a certain rate of speed and distance. In no way this can be compared to O'Hare or any other airport. Oshkosh is unique in this regard.

So then I guess the answer to the OP's question is, "Yes."